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  • Hi Max Zorin
    "Solberg you cannot excuse away block copy and pasting of another vendors unpacked database "loose practice with gathering definitions""

    I didn't - That was IObit's declaration!

    But please we have heard all your moral certitude many many times.
    Why not try you hand at something more interesting?
    I thought the bit about the size of the database had merit.
    If you had read my p.s. in my former post you would have seen that the database as of now is 35% less than it was when it was at its largest.
    "p.s.
    I took a look into as how it is now:
    IS360 v. 1.1.0.30 Define Version:1269 = core.def 4.562.334
    (numbers from a link I found in one of your posts)
    IS360 v. 1.3.0.10 = core.def 2.962.915 (current)
    (numbers from my own IS360 version)
    That is 64,94% of its former size
    A data base diminished by approximately 35% is the current status
    (looks like they will soon be up to speed)"

    Also the question about the sequence of events has apparently not captured your attention.

    I would also recommend that you study the results of ALL the comparison tests conducted in the competition thread, before asserting your opinion about them.

    Cheers
    solbjerg

    p.s. I have been using the word database, - this is actually not correct I should have called it the "core definition file", sorry.
    The database in Mbam is written in VB (Visual Basic) according to information recieved.
    The database in IS360 is written in Delphi according to information recieved.
    So their databases are not interchangeable!!


    Originally posted by solbjerg View Post
    Hi Max Zorin
    You cannot have been following the tests all that closely, in several tests
    Mbam did very good - in some much better than IObit, - usually in he tests that incorporated viruses in the malware samples though.
    And it certainly isn't being ignored, IObit has explained the loose practice they had in gathering definitions and apologized - have pulled all items from their database that was submitted there without checking in order to avoid future dispute about this according to their own statement.
    This of course diminishes the effectiveness of the application but I expect them to build it up again.
    Your mentioning of 50% is biased I think, - have you yourself conducted a fair test that gave that result and computed the numbers into percentages?
    Please submit it with numbers and all for verification as to method of computing.
    By the way - this part of the thread still is about the sequence of events.
    Cheers
    solbjerg
    Thankyou for your responce solberg :)

    I did conduct some personal checks...your figure of 50 % well was 47% by my testing and also confirmed by others.
    IObit Security 360

    Version:1.1.0.30 Default Install database= 3,918,757 bytes

    Version:1.1.0.30 Define Version:1269 = 4.562.334 bytes**

    Version:1.2.0.10 Default install database= 2.392.696 bytes

    ** This is the size of the core database after the last update before release of 1.2.0.10

    This represents by my calculations that their core database has shrunk by 47.5%
    I also read elsewhere that the whole MBAM database was not used as there was some signatures that were incompatible with the IObit engine (POLY= something or other + another one) would'nt read so were not stolen.

    Solberg you cannot excuse away block copy and pasting of another vendors unpacked database "loose practice with gathering definitions"

    Its one thing to use the same naming protocol for a threat/malware,that is practiced and acceptable nor if that the case should have resulted in the culling of nearly half the database.

    It is completely unethical and illegal to hack the competitions database and copy and paste the signatures they use on mass into your own database(Index 9).

    That is theft in most spheres and the IObit 360 database cull was just to remove the evidence that was then available to the experts that had unpacked both databases and ran side by side comparison.(index 9= MBAM signatures utilized by IObit in the pre-culled database).

    solberg its too big an elephant to fit through the door and leave the room unfortunetly :(

    Comment


    • Hello all ;

      @Krissy : nice to see you ! :smile:
      Yes, you do have some decent people (volunteers) helping out on these forums ; I've had a look around. Having them around is important, both for the members and for IObit.
      I would like nothing more than to "meet" your development engineers, and the reason is simple : coding an efficient malware removal tool requires not only skill and hard work, but close ties with known and experienced malware hunters and analysts. I happen to know (from reading) many in this field. When we talk about malware, the world becomes much smaller because the "good people" know each other, usually. I have yet to put a face on anyone on the 360 development and/or research teams.

      About the MBAM database : we're talking about tens of thousands of "lines" (entries) here, aren't we ? Saying that imprudent malware collecting practices have allowed so many lines of code to be submitted to your team is, well... impossible, to be polite. Submitting 20, 30 or 40 entries at one time, maybe, but imagine submitting 30.000 lines (this is just a figure used as an example) ? lol. This still doesn't explain the never released fake samples, which were impossible to collect.
      A good, legitimate malware removal tool requires hard, hard work to achieve, but most importantly, it requires skill, knowledge of malware and many trusted sources if it is ever going to be efficient. Like I said before, the malware removal world is a small one...

      =============

      @Melvin_Deal : I'm sorry if you are offended that I have split forum helpers into two groups only : it was just to make a point. Helpers are as diverse as the problems they help to solve. If you know any malware fighters on forums, you'll understand what I meant... a different breed altogether. I'm not saying "better", just "different".

      =============

      @solbjerg : the sequence of events. I've addressed most of it already, but not the contest nor the "virus" detections. About the contest : I'd really like to get a copy, written or audio, of that conversation, if it ever occured. It's quite intriguing. Why would a CEO from one company call up the competition to "ask" that a contest be stopped ? If I were a CEO (I'm not), I wouldn't "ask", I would "insist" if I had legitimate concerns about the said contest. Perhaps it was a friendly warning, considering the content of the database ? Who knows ;)
      About virus detections : I'm not sure exactly which detections have been added or if they are heuristics ; if 360 couldn't detect the same threats, then I'll assume they were heuristics therefore not in the db, so 360 couldn't handle them. You know, detecting and removing active threats requires a large spectrum of action, especially with all the worms out there. If one anti-malware program can attack them efficiently, that says a lot about the product. Remember that antivirus programs have been targetting trojans for 3-4 years now, something they didn't/wouldn't do before. Why ? Because the threats required they rethink their detections and customers expected them to perform. Cross detections are not only common and useful, they are essential, I think. Pure viruses (or "virii") are more rare these days, but worms are definitely popular. Worms can pack trojans, etc... so you can't draw a line anymore, not if you want to play in the big leagues.

      I've apologized to Krissy as best I could, under the circumstances, with a bit of humour - Yes. She doesn't seem to hold any of it against me, so perhaps you should do the same ;)

      You all have a great day now
      Is it winter yet ?

      Comment


      • Hi So_sad
        Thanks for the kind words about us volunteers.

        Regarding who you "know" in the malware fighting world, I think that several of IObit's staff are reluctant to post anything in English due to their language skills.
        (My guees though) this could explain why you do not "know" them (I am assuming you do not speak, read or write Chinese)

        About the database you are referring to, it would be better to refer to bytes I think - more correct.
        And very many got pulled after the accusation and IObit's declaration, about 2 Mill. bytes as far as I have seen.
        So the way they handled all these submissions were abominately slack.
        (Another thing in my opinion is that such malware definition lists ought to be shared by all for the good of the user - the difference between different programs then boiling down to the quality of their malware engine and their heuristic engine)
        I doubt very much that anyone is going to admit to having slipped those bogus samples into the collection sites or submitted them as an unknown camouflaged user.

        About the sequence of events - I guees we will never know - I doubt the conversation was recorded. But it was refered to by Tim Zue in a post right after the accusation hit them in China.
        And it does open up for a different interpretation of motives.

        On a more personal note: I think there must be some article or book named "The art of apologizing"
        But I have forgiven you
        Cheers
        solbjerg
        p.s. The one post you "threathened" to limit yourself to, has become several - but that's OK!


        Originally posted by So_sad View Post
        Hello all ;

        @Krissy : nice to see you ! :smile:
        Yes, you do have some decent people (volunteers) helping out on these forums ; I've had a look around. Having them around is important, both for the members and for IObit.
        I would like nothing more than to "meet" your development engineers, and the reason is simple : coding an efficient malware removal tool requires not only skill and hard work, but close ties with known and experienced malware hunters and analysts. I happen to know (from reading) many in this field. When we talk about malware, the world becomes much smaller because the "good people" know each other, usually. I have yet to put a face on anyone on the 360 development and/or research teams.

        About the MBAM database : we're talking about tens of thousands of "lines" (entries) here, aren't we ? Saying that imprudent malware collecting practices have allowed so many lines of code to be submitted to your team is, well... impossible, to be polite. Submitting 20, 30 or 40 entries at one time, maybe, but imagine submitting 30.000 lines (this is just a figure used as an example) ? lol. This still doesn't explain the never released fake samples, which were impossible to collect.
        A good, legitimate malware removal tool requires hard, hard work to achieve, but most importantly, it requires skill, knowledge of malware and many trusted sources if it is ever going to be efficient. Like I said before, the malware removal world is a small one...

        =============

        @Melvin_Deal : I'm sorry if you are offended that I have split forum helpers into two groups only : it was just to make a point. Helpers are as diverse as the problems they help to solve. If you know any malware fighters on forums, you'll understand what I meant... a different breed altogether. I'm not saying "better", just "different".

        =============

        @solbjerg : the sequence of events. I've addressed most of it already, but not the contest nor the "virus" detections. About the contest : I'd really like to get a copy, written or audio, of that conversation, if it ever occured. It's quite intriguing. Why would a CEO from one company call up the competition to "ask" that a contest be stopped ? If I were a CEO (I'm not), I wouldn't "ask", I would "insist" if I had legitimate concerns about the said contest. Perhaps it was a friendly warning, considering the content of the database ? Who knows ;)
        About virus detections : I'm not sure exactly which detections have been added or if they are heuristics ; if 360 couldn't detect the same threats, then I'll assume they were heuristics therefore not in the db, so 360 couldn't handle them. You know, detecting and removing active threats requires a large spectrum of action, especially with all the worms out there. If one anti-malware program can attack them efficiently, that says a lot about the product. Remember that antivirus programs have been targetting trojans for 3-4 years now, something they didn't/wouldn't do before. Why ? Because the threats required they rethink their detections and customers expected them to perform. Cross detections are not only common and useful, they are essential, I think. Pure viruses (or "virii") are more rare these days, but worms are definitely popular. Worms can pack trojans, etc... so you can't draw a line anymore, not if you want to play in the big leagues.

        I've apologized to Krissy as best I could, under the circumstances, with a bit of humour - Yes. She doesn't seem to hold any of it against me, so perhaps you should do the same ;)

        You all have a great day now
        太阳山 (solbjerg)
        Ceterum censeo Usage of IObit Products esse legendum
        (Furthermore I think that Usage of IObit Products must be read)
        Itemized subjects Table of content
        In relation to defragmentation Think about defragmentation
        Clean Install concept Clean Install
        Introduction to the Forum Forum Guidelines

        Comment


        • Hi again solbjerg ;

          I can assure you I have just one post ; it happens to be fragmented into... a couple :mrgreen:
          (aiming for one signle post wasn't realistic on my part - touché).

          I think I can leave now :wink:

          Before I do, and this is about the sequence again, and virus detections ; I was still writing when Max Zorin posted his last message. Interersting bit about the incompatible definitions ; I hadn't picked up on that while reading.

          About the sharing of "lists" : that's not impossible and may occur already. Not lists, but samples. Lists cannot and should not be incorporated into other programs, but samples can be verified and added. If your definition of "list" = "database", then I'm sorry but those are already coded to fit one program and musn't circulate (part of the intellectual property). You need a solid team to share and contribute with others in the field, day in and day out. You also need trust between sharing partners. Trust builds over time. Trusting someone with malware samples means you know a little about the people you share with ; you know they are not malware coders, you know they have ethical practices and you also can expect they will return the favour and share with you. If you don't have access to a program's developer or researcher(s), no trust can be achieved. Simple common sense here. The language barrier can be difficult to overcome, that's definitely true. Having said that, you need someone who can speak some English in order to develop partnerships, someone involved in development and research. That's pretty basic, for all industries, everywhere.

          The present situation boils down to two possible scenarios, as far as I'm concerned (my opinion folks) :

          1) One single developer decided to do this on his own, without anybody else in management being aware. Or...
          2) Management knew, ordered it and/or approved it.

          Either way, bad... for IObit. I don't envy Krissy's job, nor your positions on these forums. Sad...

          Over and out.
          Is it winter yet ?

          Comment


          • On a final note:
            I have been using the word database, - this is actually not correct.
            I should have called it the "core definition file", sorry!

            The database in Mbam is written in VB (Visual Basic)
            The database in IS360 is written in Delphi
            So their databases are not interchangeable!!
            Cheers
            solbjerg





            Originally posted by So_sad View Post
            Hi again solbjerg ;

            I can assure you I have just one post ; it happens to be fragmented into... a couple :mrgreen:
            (aiming for one signle post wasn't realistic on my part - touché).

            I think I can leave now :wink:

            Before I do, and this is about the sequence again, and virus detections ; I was still writing when Max Zorin posted his last message. Interersting bit about the incompatible definitions ; I hadn't picked up on that while reading.

            About the sharing of "lists" : that's not impossible and may occur already. Not lists, but samples. Lists cannot and should not be incorporated into other programs, but samples can be verified and added. If your definition of "list" = "database", then I'm sorry but those are already coded to fit one program and musn't circulate (part of the intellectual property). You need a solid team to share and contribute with others in the field, day in and day out. You also need trust between sharing partners. Trust builds over time. Trusting someone with malware samples means you know a little about the people you share with ; you know they are not malware coders, you know they have ethical practices and you also can expect they will return the favour and share with you. If you don't have access to a program's developer or researcher(s), no trust can be achieved. Simple common sense here. The language barrier can be difficult to overcome, that's definitely true. Having said that, you need someone who can speak some English in order to develop partnerships, someone involved in development and research. That's pretty basic, for all industries, everywhere.

            The present situation boils down to two possible scenarios, as far as I'm concerned (my opinion folks) :

            1) One single developer decided to do this on his own, without anybody else in management being aware. Or...
            2) Management knew, ordered it and/or approved it.

            Either way, bad... for IObit. I don't envy Krissy's job, nor your positions on these forums. Sad...

            Over and out.
            太阳山 (solbjerg)
            Ceterum censeo Usage of IObit Products esse legendum
            (Furthermore I think that Usage of IObit Products must be read)
            Itemized subjects Table of content
            In relation to defragmentation Think about defragmentation
            Clean Install concept Clean Install
            Introduction to the Forum Forum Guidelines

            Comment


            • Look who's here :wink:

              No rest for me it seems.

              VB ? Delphi ? This has already been addressed in another post, solbjerg.
              Your friend, my friend : Google >> type convert visual basic to delphi
              ...[Enter]

              May I go now ? I really wanna go, I swear !

              Edited to show signature, on this post only ;)
              Last edited by So_sad; Nov. 21st, 2009, 05:52.
              Is it winter yet ?

              Comment


              • Then I think you should go as all you are doing is wasting yours and everyone elses time by contiuously coming back AFTER you say good bye.

                Comment


                • Must have missed that.
                  Well anything is possible as you say
                  but much much less is probable.

                  "You can check out any time you like - but you can never leave -"
                  I mean:
                  "You can check out any time you like - but you don't ever leave -"
                  Cheers
                  solbjerg



                  Originally posted by So_sad View Post
                  Look who's here :wink:

                  No rest for me it seems.

                  VB ? Delphi ? This has already been addressed in another post, solbjerg.
                  Your friend, my friend : Google >> type convert visual basic to delphi
                  ...[Enter]

                  May I go now ? I really wanna go, I swear !
                  太阳山 (solbjerg)
                  Ceterum censeo Usage of IObit Products esse legendum
                  (Furthermore I think that Usage of IObit Products must be read)
                  Itemized subjects Table of content
                  In relation to defragmentation Think about defragmentation
                  Clean Install concept Clean Install
                  Introduction to the Forum Forum Guidelines

                  Comment


                  • I am so sad. :cry: solbjerg.
                    enoskype

                    - Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder and belongs to the man who can appreciate it. -

                    Comment


                    • Let's take a good hard look at the chain of events concerning the accusation from Mbam.
                      1. First IObit starts to collect malware definitions from various sources
                      This is done without very much supervision as to how the malware definitions are treated.

                      This may be true- but ask yourself how one of these "many" sources can have access to the exact malwarebytes database, which is encrypted within the program. It cannot be the case they had access to the exact same samples and exact same names as the malwarebytes detections.Not very good!
                      Indeed.
                      2. IObit offers the new program IObit Security 360 (IS360)
                      This receives an enormous interest and very, very many download the program.
                      3. IObit instigates a contest among users to determine which malware program performs best. With a prize for winners set at 1000$ and 25000$ to the final winner.
                      This generates much interest too, and very many comparisons - often set up as Charts also. IObit fares well in the comparison generally.
                      Some tests also have antivirus programs in them and as the malware base that are tested also has virus definitions incorporated the antivirus programs scores higher than the malware programs. Mbam scores high here?
                      4. IObit is approached by the president of Mbam that asks them to close down the contest.
                      IObit refuses

                      5. IObit is accused by Mbam of stealing their definition database.
                      Mbam claims that they had a "suspicion" and had set a "trap" for IObit by creating bogus malware definitions in their database.
                      Several questions arises from this:
                      a. How is it possible for IObit to enter Mbam's database?

                      A database is basically a file (or files) that are downloaded with your security program. Malwarebytes has it. Iobit has it, every antivirus has it.

                      To gain access to the the database someone will have to decrypt it, something that can be done quite easily with the needed skillset.

                      b. Why didn't Mbam just show that some of the same definitions were in IObits database already? (publicity stunt?)

                      I dont understand what you are saying here....

                      They did show that the same definitions were already in IOBits database. And then confirmed this wasn't just a lucky coincidence by adding files which don't exist into the malwarebytes database which are then magically also detected by IOBit a few days later. Thats not publicity stunt, thats called being caught with your pants down.

                      c. Why was the accusation released at the wee hours at night in China - they could have released it in the morning in the US to make it more probable that some IObit representative would be awake (smacks of manipulation)

                      Unfortunately this is just one of the many desperate excuses IOBit fans are clinging onto in the hope that it really is a big conspiracy. Why should Malwarebytes have to wait for IOBit to wake up? They are a US based company so they will release press statements in a time that is convinient to their locale. Wether or not IObit responds straight away or in a few hours is irrelevant.

                      d. Why were so many supporters of Mbam ready to join the IObit forum instantly and post verbal abuse on a Help forum?
                      Some of it inexcuseable abuse.

                      Probably because the good people of the internet do not believe in theft of a free product. However there are people which take things the wrong way and give abuse. Probably many were angry because of the lies and censorship they saw in this forum.

                      (more questions could be asked about the motive behind it, but I will let this suffice for now)

                      5.a. IObit issues a statement concerning the accusation
                      This statement is largely ignored or discounted by ranters and naggers in the forum

                      ....because the statement (much like most of the IOBit fans here) tiptoed around the accusations and did not submit any concrete proof to refute the evidence presented. Awkward questions were just ignored or blamed on a sleepy employee.

                      6. Mbam threatens legal action.
                      Several US based download sites for IObit products discontinue to provide download opportunity for the products.
                      Major setback for IObit.
                      7. IObit closes down the comparison contest.
                      Sad day for many hopeful contesters!

                      Not just a sad day for the contesters...also a day when most IOBit fans should realise that IOBit is in the wrong, as they pull a large proportion of their database and now have a very low chance of pulling off good result in their own competition. If they were innocent, they would not delete approximately half of their database or close the contest.

                      8. The sites blocking download of IObit products open for download again.
                      Some agreement must have been reached between Mbam and IObit for this to happen.
                      Neither of them has issued a statement to that effect?
                      8.a. IObit issues a second statement concerning the accusatation
                      This is largely ignored by antagonists in the forum

                      Again, their statement doesn't address the issue of how a large portion of encrypted propretary data came to be included in the IOBit database. Half of a database being deleted can not be attributed to a sleepy employee adding samples without checking them. This accounts for many millions of records and simply could not be a coincidence! IOBit again tiptoe around the issue by saying they deleted the disputed records, but they did not reveal how many were deleted (although this is obvious by database size difference) nor who was responsible for the supposed "copying". Not once did an IOBit employee offer any explanation on the forum, all that was given was generic and non specific statements that were far from convincing.

                      9. The accusations in the forum has abated and the verbal abuse has become markedly less.
                      My guess is that the attention span of naggers are short, and perhaps many has begun questioning the motive behind this accusation.

                      Or maybe because IOBit deleted the stolen signatures and it is clear that there is no convincing the IOBIt employees (probably) sockpupetting on this forum?

                      10. Finally let me say that for IObit to downright steal from the presumably well protected database of Mbam would require a hacker of world class (I hope for Mbams sake), and then incorporate it without camouflaging it would be so stupid as to defy understanding.
                      This makes me believe that IObit's explanation on how the definitions became added to their database is true.

                      Actually it doesn't need a "world class hacker" any reasonably skilled computer graduate or self taught technical programmer could do this quite easily. Every database (INCLUDING IOBIT) has to be decrypted for the program to use it. To read this database in memory while it is being used by a program is TRIVIAL. Please stop making excuses and trying to legitimise the hacking of other programs. The issue isn't the skill required, the issue is that it is WRONG do to something like this.

                      Now either you guys are so dedicated to this product that your passion for it is blinding you sense of reason, or you lack the technical knowledge to understand the evidence presented and the feeble excuses given to you by IOBit, or thirdly my suspicion is that the large number of vocal moderators/fans/admins posting here are IOBit employees, which would explain their ignoring of genuine, but awkward questions posted here and the constant topic changing and excuses posted here, day after day. And thats my opinion, hopefully you will respect my right to hold it

                      Cheers
                      solbjerg
                      p.s. I first wrote it in "Let me tell you a true story", but decided it needed a thread of its own.
                      p.p.s. IObit's statements can be read in IObit's blog!
                      http://blog.iobit.com/archives/95.html
                      http://forums.iobit.com/showthread.php?t=4981

                      Comment


                      • Thanks Olol.

                        Your post is well researched, thought out, and well composed. I also have investigated personally many of these things.

                        You do make one major mistake in your post... the assumption/conclusion that ones here are paid.

                        Perhaps this forum and its constituents are different in that we trully are an altruistic community of support... not just some massively huge unpersonal, unresposive, blob!

                        The (Admins,Mods,senior members) here (have and will) continue to pay (appreciation/attention) to this!

                        This forum stands on its own. Our members do as well!

                        Oh Lots Of Laughs, Thanks again!





                        The real question is why do you put so much time and energy into posting here???
                        Last edited by Melvin_Deal; Nov. 23rd, 2009, 03:18. Reason: Forgot....!


                        Comment


                        • ....why was my message moved here when I was replying to a completely different thread?

                          I'll tell you....because I am answering awkward questions and by moving and detaching it from the "in support of IOBit" thread....the forum administration is once again trying to confuse readers and hide the awkward truths. Give me a good reason why I can't reply directly to that thread.

                          Mods, admins?

                          Anyone?

                          Originally posted by Melvin_Deal View Post
                          Your post is well researched, thought out, and well composed. I also have investigated personally many of these things.

                          You do make one major mistake in your post... the assumption/conclusion that ones here are paid.

                          Perhaps this forum and its constituents are different in that we trully are an altruistic community of support... not just some massively huge unpersonal, unresposive, blob!

                          The (Admins,Mods,senior members) here (have and will) continue to pay (appreciation/attention) to this!

                          This forum stands on its own. Our members do as well!

                          Oh Lots Of Laughs, Thanks again!





                          The real question is why do you put so much time and energy into posting here???
                          Edit:
                          If you really want to get an answer to your question, why don't you bother to look at that post in this thread. Prejudiced again?
                          Your contribution to the IObit Forum to be blocked by AVG is more than enough reason for your posts to be re-moved to this thread. enoskype

                          Comment


                          • Hi Olol
                            "This accounts for many millions of records "
                            This is not a true statement.
                            As said before approximately 2 Mill. Bytes were pulled from the def.dat file
                            and must have represented what IObit estimated was placed there without being checked. That represented approximately a 47% drop in what the def.dat had contained at its bulkiest.
                            Now however the def.dat is at approximately 65% of the bulkiest state. and it therefore looks like it won't be long before it has surpassed the former def.dat (definition database)
                            This in turn means that it won't be long before IS360 surpasses Mbam in detection rates.
                            Actually I think that this could be accomplished by adding virus definition files to the def.dat like Mbam apparently has done according to results seen in the competition tests.
                            And this is what interests the common user
                            Unfortunately the competion has had to stop, but that won't stop individuals from making comparisons,
                            As for slipping definitions into the collection sites - that should present no problem even for a novice in using the computer.
                            Mbam has of course been following IS360 closely since the program was released, anyone would take a look at the competition.
                            What more they have done I cannot say, but the sequence of events makes me suspicious of their motives.
                            Cheers
                            solbjerg
                            太阳山 (solbjerg)
                            Ceterum censeo Usage of IObit Products esse legendum
                            (Furthermore I think that Usage of IObit Products must be read)
                            Itemized subjects Table of content
                            In relation to defragmentation Think about defragmentation
                            Clean Install concept Clean Install
                            Introduction to the Forum Forum Guidelines

                            Comment


                            • I suppose the message was moved here because this is where it belongs.

                              Comment


                              • Hi olol
                                If you had read what has been announced in the forum, all posts relating to the accusation will be moved into the Accusation thread.
                                This is done to avoid too much disruption of the running of this help forum.
                                Feel free to quote from other threads/posts in the forum but place your comments about accusation in the accusation thread, - if you don't, - we will move it there.
                                My thread was a posting aimed at the loyal members of this forum and has therefore not been moved into the accusation thread but copied.
                                Bottom line is that administrator(s) decides what gets to be moved.
                                Cheers
                                solbjerg
                                p.s. Actually the accusation thread does not belong in a help forum, but we decided to extend courtesy to naggers, abusers, ranters and genuinely concerned people to express their opinion in a thread we created for that purpose.
                                We have deleted and/or banned the most abusive abusers, naggers and ranters for various things - bad language and racial slur mostly or repeating their points of view incessantly.


                                Originally posted by olol View Post
                                ....why was my message moved here when I was replying to a completely different thread?

                                I'll tell you....because I am answering awkward questions and by moving and detaching it from the "in support of IOBit" thread....the forum administration is once again trying to confuse readers and hide the awkward truths. Give me a good reason why I can't reply directly to that thread.

                                Mods, admins?

                                Anyone?

                                Edit:
                                If you really want to get an answer to your question, why don't you bother to look at that post in this thread. Prejudiced again?
                                Your contribution to the IObit Forum to be blocked by AVG is more than enough reason for your posts to be re-moved to this thread. enoskype
                                Last edited by enoskype; Nov. 25th, 2009, 01:03.
                                太阳山 (solbjerg)
                                Ceterum censeo Usage of IObit Products esse legendum
                                (Furthermore I think that Usage of IObit Products must be read)
                                Itemized subjects Table of content
                                In relation to defragmentation Think about defragmentation
                                Clean Install concept Clean Install
                                Introduction to the Forum Forum Guidelines

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