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# Mathematical dialects

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Hi

If I ask the question: what is the result of -5^2

(that is minus/negative 5 squared)

Well in the normal Excel program it is understood as (-5)² = 25

Libre/Open Office does the same.

But in the Excel version of Visual Basic it is understood as -(5)² = -25

Which means that to get around the "dialect" it is wise to use brackets to make sure one's language is understood correctly.

The most common dialect used by mathematicians is -(5)² which is also used in the VB in Excel.

It would be interesting to know which dialect is commonly used in the different countries.

Cheers

solbjerg

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Hi solbjerg,

The rule for me is : the powers, the multiplications, and the divisions are first done, then the substructions (or minus) or the additions are done after the first set of calculations are done.

So, the dialect for me should have been : -(5)² = -25

ie. -(5^2)

Otherwise, for the normal Excel interpretation (for my understanding), it should have been: (-5)^2

Cheers.

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Hi enoskype

Ok you use the understanding most mathematicians have,

so does my brother - I am more ambivalent myself and would like the use of brackets. The important thing is though to know how it will be interpreted by the reciever :-)

In other words which axe handle to use :-) (Goddag mand! Økseskaft) (Alt+0248 = ø) in case you want to do a search

Cheers

solbjerg

Hi solbjerg,

The rule for me is : the powers, the multiplications, and the divisions are first done, then the substructions (or minus) or the additions are done after the first set of calculations are done.

So, the dialect for me should have been : -(5)² = -25

ie. -(5^2)

Otherwise, for the normal Excel interpretation (for my understanding), it should have been: (-5)^2

Cheers.

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In USA I was taught that () means negative... by adding the second - you create a double negative (thus a positive).

In USA I was taught: (-5)² = 25

Sincerely,

-Mel

Live long and prosper!

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In USA I was taught that () means negative... by adding the second - you create a double negative (thus a positive).

So you could also say that the following is correct:

-(5²)=25

Right? :lol: Ha ha ha

Cheers.

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Aye!! It is amazing that I can add!:wink: Considering that my teacher confused accounting and math.:shock: It is no wonder that my nation appears to be declining.

Sincerely,

-Mel

Live long and prosper!

So you could also say that the following is correct:

-(5²)=25

Right? :lol: Ha ha ha

Cheers.

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Hi Melvin

I'll ignore your first sentence -

The second though is correct

(-5)² = -5*-5 = 25

(trying to say it in words could be something like this: You don't pay 5\$ you owe to someone 5 times - that way you will have 25\$ more in your pocket than if you had paid them) :-)

(don't pay 5 times = -5

and owing 5\$ is = -5)

Cheers

solbjerg

In USA I was taught that () means negative... by adding the second - you create a double negative (thus a positive).

In USA I was taught: (-5)² = 25

Sincerely,

-Mel

Live long and prosper!

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My understanding is that the brackets dictate the sequence of action. Items within brackets must be reconciled first. The idea in maths is to remove all brackets and the reconsile the results. So, {x+y[c+d(a+b)]} would resolve as

the result of a+b multiplied by The result of c+d. This result is then multiplied by the result of x+y.

Since the introduction of modern algebraic notation, multiplication has taken precedence over addition. Thus 3 + 4 × 5 = 4 × 5 + 3 = 23. When exponents were first introduced in the 16th and 17th centuries, exponents took precedence over both addition and multiplication and could be placed only as a superscript to the right of their base. Thus 3 + 5² = 28 and 3 × 5² = 75. To change the order of operations, originally a vinculum (an overline or underline) was used. Today, parentheses or brackets are used to explicitly denote precedence by grouping parts of an expression that should be evaluated first. Thus, to force addition to precede multiplication, we write (2 + 3) × 4 = 20, and to force addition to precede exponentiation, we write (3 + 5)² = 64.

p.s. Scannan - you have a couple of errors in your writing here and also the most common way of showing exponent is to utilize the circumflex character for that i.e. (x)^2 to show (x)² the exponent here is written by holding down the Alt key and hitting 0178 on the number pad (cubic is ³ Alt+0179)

My guess is that you have tried to write ² by using the raised character of 2 in Word - but that does't change the the character number utilized and won't be retained when copying it to a notepad like location - it will then revert to the non-raised character Alt+50 :-)

EDIT: I have edited and corrected numerical number (2) to the squares (²) in the main text so that p.s. could be better understood. enoskype

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Hi Melvin

I'll ignore your first sentence - good... it was an attempt at an accounting joke.

The second though is correct

(-5)² = -5*-5 = 25

If the negative (Minus mark) were outside of the parenthesis I would wonder where the rest of the equation was... it would mean (unknown...... ) minus 25.

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The negative (minus mark outside) the bracket simply means: - * (...)

Minus times the result of whatever is inside the bracket...so -(5²)=

- times (5 times 5) = -times 25 = -25 ( because negative times positive always = negative.

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I love the friends gathered here on this small thin raft. :grin:

Sincerely,

-Mel

Live long and prosper!

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Mel

I agree wholeheartedly......http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-happy110.gif

p.s. Left a p.s. for you in post #8

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Hi Mel

Example: 10-(5+3) = 2

10-8 = 2

If you for some reason want to do away with the brackets - you would have to change the signifier inside the brackets to the opposite

10-5-3 = 2

This shows that you have to compute the items inside the bracket first.

Cheers

solbjerg

In USA I was taught that () means negative... by adding the second - you create a double negative (thus a positive).

In USA I was taught: (-5)² = 25

Sincerely,

-Mel

Live long and prosper!

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My understanding is that the brackets dictate the sequence of action. Items within brackets must be reconciled first. The idea in maths is to remove all brackets and the reconsile the results. So, {x+y[c+d(a+b)]} would resolve as

the result of a+b multiplied by The result of c+d. This result is then multiplied by the result of x+y.

Hi Scannan,

I think, your interpretation of the formula {x+y[c+d(a+b)]} is not correct!?!?!?! :-( (Mathematically. :mrgreen: )

If we assume: a=1, b=2, c=3, d=4, x=5, and y=6

Your interpretation would be [(1 + 2) * (3 + 4)] * (5 + 6) = 231

Infact, that should resolve as:

The result of (a+b) should be multiplied by d and the result should be added to c. This result should be multiplied by y and the result should be added to x

ie.,

{[(3 * 4) + 3] * 6} + 5 = 95

ie.,

{5+6[3+4(1+2)]}=95

All the best and cheers.:grin:

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Enoskype

Thank you. Using the Multiply and division before addition and subtraction strictly, you are absolutely correct....http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-cool11.gif

I was trying to show a sequence rather than an actual, showing that the function progressed outward from the centre. The sequence being dictated by the position of the brackets/parenthesae on the right of the equation...)]}

....I just love this forum...http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-cool05.gif

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Hi Scannan

Love is a word we should often use

most times it actually means like

how do we the meaning peruse

without taking it to it's ultimate pike?

:-) Cheers

solbjerg

Enoskype

Thank you. Using the Multiply and division before addition and subtraction strictly, you are absolutely correct....http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-cool11.gif

I was trying to show a sequence rather than an actual, showing that the function progressed outward from the centre. The sequence being dictated by the position of the brackets/parenthesae on the right of the equation...)]}

....I just love this forum...http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-cool05.gif

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Hi Mel

Example: 10-(5+3) = 2

10-8 = 2

If you for some reason want to do away with the brackets - you would have to change the signifier inside the brackets to the opposite

10-5-3 = 2

This shows that you have to compute the items inside the bracket first.

Cheers

solbjerg

Actually it was an attempt at a joke/stab/pun.

In American accounting (\$) that would be negative (debit money). So as it is all mathematics anyway and equations being what they are...

I only meant to point out the fault in the disparity within my society in a humorous manner.:-) () meaning - in accounting here... but not mathematics.

Sincerely,

-Mel

Live long and prosper!