No Space

[ti1358]

Having read many threads here I am wondering if Smart Defrag is simply only-half-written ...I'm running v2.6 (on XP) and it seems to be lacking one function critical to defragmentation software:- it cannot/will not/does not defragment free space.

 

My C: drive is a 30GB partition with 7.2GB (24%) of free space ...My drive had not be defragged in a *long* time, and as such pretty much the whole drive is fragmented.

 

SDefrag is incapable of defragmenting the drive, it simply complainS that there is "No Space" to defragment files as small a 3MB.

 

My best guess (and it is just a guess based on what I have read in many threads here and elsewhere) is that I do not have a contiguous free-space on my drive which is bigger than 3MB.

 

I also notice that, at boot, SDefrag claims that my Pagefile is defragmented, but if I run Piriform Defraggler immediately upon boot it informs me that my pagefile is in 5 fragments.

 

Am I missing something critical to make SDefrag defrag free space and therefore defrag the whole drive?

 

Ti

[Scannan]

Hi ti1358

 

Welcome. As you have stated, there is a lot of discussion regarding the so called Defragmenting of free space, and there is no point in starting another discussion on it, So, I think your best course of action is to remove some large non-critical files (such as movies) to another drive. Then run SD and do a defrag and full optimise. This should improve matters greatly and you can replace the removed files back on to your disc if you wish.

[ti1358]

My C: drive is my system drive ...When I started, my drive was 3% free space, it is now 24% free space (created by Piriform CCleaner) - there are no "large non-critical files (such as movies)" left on my system drive. So I guess you are simply telling me the same thing the review sites (such as softpedia.com) are telling me "SDefrag simply cannot defrag drives which are heavily fragmented"

 

It's a shame, SDefrag has a nice interface and CLAIMS to offer all the features I want ...Either you are choosing to keep SDefrag is this non-useful state, or your programmers simply don't know how to fix it ...If it is a choice, then I don't understand it, but I will respect it ...If your programmers simply don't know how to make SDefrag work, feel free to ask for help - I personally know little about NTFS, but I wrote my own intelligent defragger back in the FAT16 DOS days - so may be able to offer some useful advice.

 

In the mean time, Piriform Defraggler (which lacks features such as "defrag pagefile and registry hive on boot") has just successfully defragmented my C: drive and I have discovered that SysInternals have a Pagefile (etc) defragger ...So I have a workaround until SDefrag is fixed :)

 

Ti

[Scannan]

Thank you for the feedback.

Are you saying that Piriform Defraggler, defragmented your free space,????

[ti1358]

Defraggler did NOT defragment all my free space in to a single contiguous block (which is /generally/ unnecessary wear on the drive) , but it DID defragment sufficient free space to be able to defragment all the files on my C: drive and leave only half-a-dozen (large) blocks of free space.

 

I wish I could provide a "before and after" photo, but I did not think to take a screenshot when the drive was fragmented ...what I can tell you is that barring a few system files on the start of the drive (probably my original windows install) and a few patches of unmovable files, the entire drive was Red and there was not a single White square anywhere on the map. After Defraggle it looks like the attached picture.

 

The Red blob in the middle was created by Thunderbird, Avast and JDownloader - it is very difficult to perform a /perfect/ defragmentation on a live drive - so I am happy with this.

 

I cannot tell you what the Black blobs are because SDefrag does not offer that (generally superfluous) feature.

 

Ti

[Scannan]

The "black blobs" are Unmovable files. Your feedback is very interesting and I have highlighted it to Iobit.

However, you should check your settings in SD and see what selection you have made regarding size of files to skip. This will also impact the operation of SD and may have caused the issue. See attached.

[Melvin_Deal]

Hi Ti.

 

By hovering your cursor over the legend "blobs" on the bottom left of the main GUI of SmartDefrag, a small window will open explaining their meaning.

 

The Red blob in the middle was created by Thunderbird, Avast and JDownloader - it is very difficult to perform a /perfect/ defragmentation on a live drive - so I am happy with this.

 

I cannot tell you what the Black blobs are because SDefrag does not offer that (generally superfluous) feature.

The red "blob" is MFT

 

:-D

 

 

Sincerely,

-Mrl

Live long and prosper!

[ti1358]

I appreciate that the Black blobs are "unmovable files" but I have no way to tell what these files actually are ...On some defrag utils you can click on a blob (of any colour) and get a list of files in that area of the drive

 

Back in the FAT16 days, any file with "attrib +s" would be considered as unmovable by defragmentation software. Nowdays, I know that the $MFT folder is unmovable, as is the Registry Hive and any number of other windows core files - but SDefrag does not list the filenames of unmovable files.

 

Thanks for the settings tip, but the "skip files larger than" box was NOT ticked ...and even it had been it would not have stopped SDefrag from defragmenting 3MB files.

 

Ti

[Melvin_Deal]

I appreciate that the Black blobs are "unmovable files" but I have no way to tell what these files actually are ...On some defrag utils you can click on a blob (of any colour) and get a list of files in that area of the drive

 

Back in the FAT16 days, any file with "attrib +s" would be considered as unmovable by defragmentation software. Nowdays, I know that the $MFT folder is unmovable, as is the Registry Hive and any number of other windows core files - but SDefrag does not list the filenames of unmovable files.

 

Thanks for the settings tip, but the "skip files larger than" box was NOT ticked ...and even it had been it would not have stopped SDefrag from defragmenting 3MB files.

 

Ti

 

In SD the vast majority of the "black blobs" consist of system restore data. You can diminish them if you wish by reducing the number of restore points you store within your Windows... (if you want to).

 

Sincerely,

-Mel

Live long and prosper!

[ti1358]

Melvin,

 

By the default settings, on my machine:

The Purple blob is $MFT (and labelled "Driectories")

Red blobs identify "Fragmented" disk areas

 

SDefrag will not tell me the filespecs of the files withing these areas of the drive ...with ASusLogics Disk Defrag and Piriform Defraggler you can click on a coloured blob and get a list of all the files in that area of the disk :)

 

Ti

[ti1358]

In SD the vast majority of the "black blobs" consist of system restore data. You can diminish them if you wish by reducing the number of restore points you store within your Windows... (if you want to).

 

Thanks for that tip, it is good advice ...but I already used the information here http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555367 to remove all but the last restore point ...it is one of the things I did to free up drive space in the hope of making SDefrag work.

 

Ti

[Melvin_Deal]

Thanks for that tip, it is good advice ...but I already used the information here http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555367 to remove all but the last restore point ...it is one of the things I did to free up drive space in the hope of making SDefrag work.

 

Ti

 

 

I am referring to the amount of space allocated to restoration (within your Windows OS)... not the restore points themselves... the space will still be reserved. (also included in the non-movables will be the OS .dll files, etc. to prevent possible corruption by movement or multiple movements.

 

Sincerely,

-Mel

Live long and prosper!

[ti1358]

Interesting ...Do you have links to any articles that discuss these issues please?

 

Asuslogics Disk Defrag is (literally as I type) moving all my system DLL files to the start of the drive to improve system performance.

 

Is it possible to change "The space allocated to restoration" easily?

 

Ti

[Melvin_Deal]

Interesting ...Do you have links to any articles that discuss these issues please?

 

Asuslogics Disk Defrag is (literally as I type) moving all my system DLL files to the start of the drive to improve system performance.

 

Is it possible to change "The space allocated to restoration" easily?

 

Ti

 

Hi again ti.

 

There are some threads here concerning this on your XP Pro (and other versions of XP) dating back to 2008-2009, but I cannot recall what they were titled. Fortunate for you that you have XP in this area as I recall it was easy in XP... I had to do some work with vista. The threads are here on this forum that will tell you how to do this. I will try to find the info for you... but you should search as well.

 

 

Asuslogics Disk Defrag is (literally as I type) moving all my system DLL files to the start of the drive to improve system performance.

This is fine as it is part of their "theory" on how to best optimize a HD. Please note that all defragmentators operate under a theory about file placement and HD usage... they all do things differently. Over defragmenting your machine only risks data corruption and premature failure of the drive.

 

I cannot speak to the Asuslogics defragmenter as I don't know what its criteria for file placement is. I can speak to the Iobit defragmenter as its file placement is to put the most often used files most readily available to the drive head so that they can most quickly be accessed. (speeding HD access time and slowing wear on the carriage within the drive at the same time.)

 

I am curious if you have checked the disk for errors??? (scandisk)

 

 

Sincerely,

-Mel

Live long and prosper!

 

[EDIT] by Mel: What I forgot to emphasize here is that the defragmentors will fight with each other moving files back and forth! You should stop running them all until you make your choice! Otherwise you will be only moving things from one room to another... then moving them back again... then moving them back to that room... then moving them again to this room now... (in the process of all that moving, things get damaged!!!)

 

[2nd EDIT] by Mel: This might be it,,,don't know... never ran XP: You can limit the number of Restore Points which accumulate by reducing the amount of space allocated to the utility. By default System Restore claims 12% of the drive and on a large capacity HD, that's an awful lot of space.

 

To reduce it, hit Windows logo key + Pause/Break to take you to System Properties and then click the System Restore tab.

 

Drag the arrow backwards to provide about 2000MB which will give you about four Restore Points.

 

I'm sure the others will answer.

[Melvin_Deal]

Melvin,

 

By the default settings, on my machine:

The Purple blob is $MFT (and labelled "Driectories")

Red blobs identify "Fragmented" disk areas

 

SDefrag will not tell me the filespecs of the files withing these areas of the drive ...with ASusLogics Disk Defrag and Piriform Defraggler you can click on a coloured blob and get a list of all the files in that area of the disk :)

 

Ti

 

Okay... ;-)

 

We can thus agree that the one block "blob" (close to the middle) is called purple... (I called red) MFT?

 

The ones that you are saying are red, appear as yellow orange to me (the fragmented ones).

 

I think definiton of color is now in discussion.:shock:

 

 

Sincerely,

-Mel

Live long and prosper!

[Scannan]

Maybe this will help. See attached.

[Melvin_Deal]

Aye Scannan!

 

Thanks!

 

It would appear that I need to install SD once again and not rely on my memory. I had it backwards.

 

Hi ti... sorry about that, I was advising out of memory from 6 months ago.

 

At least parts of my advisement are correct.:mrgreen:

 

 

Sincerely,

-Mel

Live long and prosper!

[solbjerg]

Colour scheme

 

Hi

http://forums.iobit.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10991&stc=1&d=1355132261

 

I am sorry there weren't any directory colour - purple in the screenshot (mixture of blue and red)

 

Cheers

solbjerg

p.s. In the colour scheme you can select the colours, the saturation and the hue that pleases you for each of the different types of blocks - you can even select a colours scheme that should be easier for some colour blind people.

p.p.s I think the yellow (tangerine) could alse be called yellow (light ochre)

p.p.p.s. Blue blood - in reality it is more likely greenish (if no oxygen is present) - which for those that belong to the socalled white race and is of blue blood extraction would mean that the colour of their skin is more yellow than white :-)

[ti1358]

LOL ...I think I cocked up (tired at 5am last night) and started referring to an SDefrag output that I had not posted - and started a whole confusion about colours. Sorry.

 

A lot of very good points have been raised in this thread by some very helpful people. And I think they could well guide the next version of SDefrag.

 

The first issue, which is a complaint all over the internet, is that even if the drive is 25% (or more) free space, SDefrag cannot defrag a drive unless suitable contiguous space *already* exists. Barring unmovable files, creating contiguous space ("defragmenting free-space") is algorithmically no more difficult than defragging files. Theoretically, you can defragment a drive with 0% free space - although if you do not have a single free cluster you are a) taking a risk on data corruption and b) need a bigger hard drive ...In less extreme examples it could cost a lot of disk-writes, but if that worries you, you can add an "Aggresive Mode" tickbox in the options (or such).

 

In hindsight: To have had SDefrag defrag my drive I would have needed to remove many files from my drive ...Which files? No way to tell (without using another defrag/HDD-analysis tool). Again, this is a trivial fix, SDefrag already knows what file(s) are making that square "Red"/Fragmented it just doesn't show that list on the screen ...But even if I had been told, they may well have been critical system files which could not be removed (even temporarily).

 

Defragmentation of the pagefile and registry hive are fairly critical for a smooth running system, being aggresive to achieve that could be considered equally as critical. Discuss (lol).

 

Playing with the System Restore size does not appear to effect the number of "Black"/Unmovable chunks of the drive ...A list of what is causing unmovable/Black areas of the drive would be very useful.

 

I personally prefer the SDefrag optimization algorithm. My reference to Asuslogics was merely to highlight that Windows DLL's are NOT unmovable.

 

Have I addressed/redressed everything relevant?

 

Ti

[Scannan]

Ti

 

Thank you for the clarifications. I agree, this is a very interesting discussion and Iobit have told me that they will look at it.

I have a question....when you say that SD will not defrag even with 25% free space,,,could you tell me exactly what message SD gives you stating that it cannot defrag.

I have had occasions with 16% free space and SD defragged and optimised without problem.....it has never refused to defrag..the only message I ever got was that Defrag was unnecessary (as the fragment level was low)

[solbjerg]

Hi ti1358

Regarding the Windows System Restore points - they can be found by pressing the Windows Key+Pause/Break and selecting the tab System Restore and then the button Setting.

Here you have a slider that probably shows you the 12% setting and this percentage can be lowered -

12% of your 32 GB disk is 3,84 GB

My disk is 56 GB and I utilize 3% for Windows System Restore which gives me 1,68 GB - this give me the capacity to have 15 restore points stored, which I feel is more than enough.

It should be easy to find discussion about this on the internet, most I have come across find 12% on the high side (my guess is that the 12% setting is a leftover from the time that the harddisks were in the few MB bracket)

When having changed the percentage setting there, one should restart the computer (I would even recommend a chkdsk) :-)

p.s. I myself do store large picture files, large sound files and especially videoes on another drive - which I do not defrag.

This leaves me with a C:\ drive that are only about 1/3 full - 2/3 free space, and the defragging has never caused me any trouble with SD.

Cheers

solbjerg

p.p.s. The SmartDefrag program is a totally free program

[ti1358]

@Scannan:

The only verbiage offered to the <can't defrag> problem is the phrase "No Sapce" next to hundreds of files in the Scan Report.

 

The upshot:

# Almost the entire drive is Red/Fragmented - with ZERO (none/zilch/nada) White/Grey/Unused blobs ...but the drive is 24.2% free-sapce.

# Run Defrag

# Report says "No Space" next to hundreds of files

# The drive picture remains as it was when I started

 

From reading lots of other threads it would seem that SDefrag will only defrag a file if there is *already* a contiguous space large enough for it - IE. It will *not* juggle stuff around to consolidate existing free space.

 

@solbjerg:

Thanks for the info on how to change the Restore Reservation.

 

I have the same setup as you (32GB System partition and 260GB data partition)

 

The SD Card you saw on my screenshot was just my camera card which I had left it. I would NEVER defragment an SSD ...Yes, SSD's DO slow down through fragmentation (worse than hard drives) but when my largest card is 16GB and there are 0 "unmovable files" I'll defrag it by: copy everything off; format (**with official SDFormatter tool**); copy everything back.

 

Ti

Edit: I have 3 physical disks and have no need for partitions, Cheers solbjerg

[Scannan]

Ti

 

Thanks for the feedback. I think you may agree that there is something strange, that SD says there is no space and shows no free space (white/grey blobs) yet it states that there is 24.2% free-sapce.

 

The only thing I can think of is that the free space must be reserved space and SD was not permitted to use it.

[Melvin_Deal]

Melvin,

 

By the default settings, on my machine:

The Purple blob is $MFT (and labelled "Driectories")

Red blobs identify "Fragmented" disk areas

 

SDefrag will not tell me the filespecs of the files withing these areas of the drive ...with ASusLogics Disk Defrag and Piriform Defraggler you can click on a coloured blob and get a list of all the files in that area of the disk :)

 

Ti

 

Thats nice that you can do that with those programs and that is what pleases you... All softwares are different. Perhaps you will choose one of them as your primary deframenter.

 

It seems you started posting here with a question :

Having read many threads here I am wondering if Smart Defrag is simply only-half-written

 

SmartDefrag is not half written. It is what it is, as released by the developer.:shock:

 

 

As far as my earlier posts concerning the .dll files, I never said that they were immovable by any software... only that perhaps SD chooses not to move and calls them immovable. All files on a HD are moveable and erasable... you have somewhat agreed with me by alluding to the "algorithym" that I referred to as a "theory".

 

Perhaps one should consider whether or not so much juggling of things is helpful??? (perhaps you are only running some tests on this partition?)

 

Eventually gravity will win no matter how good the juggler.:shock: As you seem to have recovered enough room on that partition to function well... I wish you the best!;-)

 

Sincerely,

-Mel'

Live long and prosper!

 

P.S. To all... In my Vista when I reduced the allocated space, The black immovable blocks dissappeared accordingly. I have never come close to the threshold of 25 percent discussed here though. I did however reinstall the newest version of SD.:mrgreen:

[Scannan]

Cheers Mel

 

With regard to .Dll's.... they are not of themselves immovable, but dll's are widely used and are shared by more than one program, so unless you do a defrag with every other program completely disabled, then it is most likely that a lot of.dll's will be active and therefore immovable.

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-computer003.gif