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Accusation Thread - Dispute


solbjerg

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Hi detailer

You are absolutely right, all statistics should be viewed with an eye to its premises.

When I worked in Sweden many years ago I saw a newspaper with a graph over that years development of earnings in industry compared to the development in wages. The graph was about 2 centimeters high and the wages coloumn was about twice as high as the income in industry.

If one read the VERY small print underneath, one would discover that they had cut the top 2 cm off a coloumn that was 10 meters high, which then meant that there was almost no difference to the growth of the wages and the industry.

But the problem is that not many bother to read the small print :-(

They could have said that there was 1‰ difference (Alt+0137 = ‰)

Cheers

solbjerg

p.s. put me in mind of a study that claimed that church-goers lived longer.

Reason of course was that the very sick or dying wasn't going to church :-)

 

 

Test are tests-one can come up with nearly any comparison result they wish to achieve by using selected "canned" samples and manipulating the testing environment.Fx. Norton consistently ranks #1 over a Cnet,however,not so in other independent tests,and certainly not #1 IMHO.
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Hi gang !

 

Sorry I hadn't stopped by in a while. I just saw this post from itsmejjj (quoted below).

 

First of all : hi there dude (or dudette, whichever applies). Thank you for bringing me back from the grave, after nearly two weeks of silence.

 

I don't mind your spelling, by the way. You know how to make your point, that's all that matters.

 

I think your main point is this : you like the park you have here and won't leave, even if a supported product is a rip-off (alledgedly or confirmed), basically. That's your right. I just don't understand it, but that's me ;-)

 

Having a nice park to play in is great ; not all the other parks are accessible. I just wouldn't take my kids there if I knew it was built over a nuclear waste dump. I'm just kidding...

 

My point today : don't bring old posts back up, unless you have an irresistable inner desire to pick a fight 8-)

(fights aren't allowed here, by the way ; you could get banned, and rightly so...).

 

Finally : about contacting IOBit directly instead fo coming here with concerns about the products. Well, IOBit management are not supplying a communication avenue, other than email, and that sucks. They should have support people here, like all the major players have. Even the smaller vendors have forums with staff present. Language barriers exist here, but I'm sure they have people who can speak a little english. Oh and let's not forget that email communication is only two-way ; important issues that impact purchase decisions need to be made visible and a forum is a perfect place for that.

 

Lastly (which comes after finally lol) : someone asked about product testing. solbjerg kindly reminded us of tests results that appeared back in the days when the 360 db was stuffed with the mighty mbam db. That said, newer independant testing would need to be done, with current versions. Then you would have a realistic picture, if the testing is done correctly (relatively speaking). But tests are only tests ; real performance can be appreciated when a computer is subjected to real, current and nasty stuff that runs in the wild (yes, that includes some viruses, if you're really good).

 

You folks have an excellent Holiday season :-D

 

 

no don't overture ya self..

I am shaking my head at the moment...well sir do not shake to hard ,ya ma hurt ya self..Which leaves some questions to be answered about your true status within the organization. But that's just my opinion ;-)not a good one

that's my opinion.

iffa ya know any thing about forums,?

no one gets paid..and iffa thy do, i would want ta know where is my cut?

 

 

this comment--So... why are you folks still all here, helping on the forums after suffering such a hard blow ? Boggles my mind. Unless you've received some nice mail in the past week or so, from IOBit HQ

 

haaaa ya are joking..surely..by the way do not take offense with my spelling..

i have read the posts up to the last one..

 

let Me tell you something.i wonder ifa some one sent ME a nice Email? or any one here ,not nice a statement....

that is a bit rude,as for why are we here ,look at the post made daylong.we do ,why?, i, we enjoy the company.ta asked and answer,..my self i love ta share..now this is all getting very boring,

its past by, and we all know what the clams made are ,been told that plenty,now ,we been very understanding with all the posts

thy may have some good,bad,silly clams.we all tried ta listen.without out cameling, away .you have made ,what you see valid points.ok

good ,i suggest ifa it ends in a court ya be there,on behalf of mbam..

we however not speaking for the members but rather myself ,give a dam ,i really care less .nor lose sleep over it...

 

you see as one poster put it .1 finger is pointing,3 are pointing back at the same time..look leave it to the ones that have wigs on .let them sort it out

now posting all this ,you think it will turn members of the forum?

 

 

single out this one or that one..i read the to and fro answers ,you think you or any one will turn me of the application? as hard as you or any one may try?

 

think again...given if its true...i don't care.so long as it will do what i want from it

 

now let me also say this.there are 5 applacaitions ,that use the same en

gen..in fire walls ,and ip stoppers.(almost the same) i have not heard i whimper.from any of the programmers.nor the company's,...that there en gen are similar..

 

so i should go to each forum and point? or sagest ,? like i state i care less

ok as for myself you are welcome here ,why .i care less what is posted so long as its nice,i have been gulty of camaling.and losing the temper.and do .

but that is mostly ,not understanding words,the way thy are put.or sound.

you seem a smart person,ver good lines the way you spell.write i injoyed the posts.

but please no pointing tha fingers not at us any how,ya got a beef .THEN EMAIL the company ,

we only use the PARK and play in it.thats it

nothing else. i sat watching to attacks ,that we tried to stop .and be leave we behaved very well ..like i say ,this is the PARK .ya go to the factory and bitch there ...

 

itsmejjj

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Hi so_sad

Almost a civil comment - but -

"Having a nice park to play in is great ; not all the other parks are accessible. I just wouldn't take my kids there if I knew it was built over a nuclear waste dump. I'm just kidding..."

- Is not!!

I am sure you would be offended if I told you -

"You are an idiot! - just kidding"

- and rightly so

The just kidding stuff doesn't take away the abuse, right?

Sorry for the example but I felt I had to make you see how it works.

Cheers

solbjerg

 

Hi gang !

 

Sorry I hadn't stopped by in a while. I just saw this post from itsmejjj (quoted below).

 

First of all : hi there dude (or dudette, whichever applies). Thank you for bringing me back from the grave, after nearly two weeks of silence.

 

I don't mind your spelling, by the way. You know how to make your point, that's all that matters.

 

I think your main point is this : you like the park you have here and won't leave, even if a supported product is a rip-off (alledgedly or confirmed), basically. That's your right. I just don't understand it, but that's me ;-)

 

Having a nice park to play in is great ; not all the other parks are accessible. I just wouldn't take my kids there if I knew it was built over a nuclear waste dump. I'm just kidding...

 

My point today : don't bring old posts back up, unless you have an irresistable inner desire to pick a fight 8-)

(fights aren't allowed here, by the way ; you could get banned, and rightly so...).

 

Finally : about contacting IOBit directly instead fo coming here with concerns about the products. Well, IOBit management are not supplying a communication avenue, other than email, and that sucks. They should have support people here, like all the major players have. Even the smaller vendors have forums with staff present. Language barriers exist here, but I'm sure they have people who can speak a little english. Oh and let's not forget that email communication is only two-way ; important issues that impact purchase decisions need to be made visible and a forum is a perfect place for that.

 

Lastly (which comes after finally lol) : someone asked about product testing. solbjerg kindly reminded us of tests results that appeared back in the days when the 360 db was stuffed with the mighty mbam db. That said, newer independant testing would need to be done, with current versions. Then you would have a realistic picture, if the testing is done correctly (relatively speaking). But tests are only tests ; real performance can be appreciated when a computer is subjected to real, current and nasty stuff that runs in the wild (yes, that includes some viruses, if you're really good).

 

You folks have an excellent Holiday season :-D

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My apologies for the "extreme" example, solbjerg.

 

I'll rephrase, if I may. Having a nice forum at your disposal, where you can be a helper and even climb up the ranks, is a nice place to hang out. Someone has to host the thing, give rights to certain individuals (like yourself) so improvements can be made without management being present or involved, moderation can occur, etc... The more goodies are made available to forum staff* (*meaning volunteers of course..), the more you feel involved, respected, etc... Having said that, a support forum exists to support products, by nature. That's what we have here. Volunteers of all ranks helping folks with product support and any other related questions. Now... you know where I'm going with this because I've said it before, so I won't rehash any of it. It has to do with the foundations on which the park is built..

 

Better ?

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Hi so_sad

Ok, but my point was that it actually is inexcuseable. (my example too)

I don't think that any of us users with some administrative right are in it for "climbing the ranks" as you put it. We just like helping people if we can, - and are sometimes asked if we would accept doing a bit more as "administrators".. Some of us then do from altruistic motives.

The forum is for the benefit of the users, otherwise we would not have sufficient incentive to use as much time as we do on it.

It is surely also beneficial for the company to have a good forum but that is not our primary concern.

We do get to use the pro versions for free but that is still not why we do it.

So for us the foundation of the forum is helping people.

Having a forum for just promoting a company - I find that too shallow.

But if that is how you function - ok to each his own!

We also do you the courtecy of answering you and give you a thread in which you can write, but basicly you are not seeking our help (or offering any) and are therefore not a real (in the sense valued) forum member.

Cheers

solbjerg

 

My apologies for the "extreme" example, solbjerg.

 

I'll rephrase, if I may. Having a nice forum at your disposal, where you can be a helper and even climb up the ranks, is a nice place to hang out. Someone has to host the thing, give rights to certain individuals (like yourself) so improvements can be made without management being present or involved, moderation can occur, etc... The more goodies are made available to forum staff* (*meaning volunteers of course..), the more you feel involved, respected, etc... Having said that, a support forum exists to support products, by nature. That's what we have here. Volunteers of all ranks helping folks with product support and any other related questions. Now... you know where I'm going with this because I've said it before, so I won't rehash any of it. It has to do with the foundations on which the park is built..

 

Better ?

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Hi So_sad,

 

Welcome back.

 

Your analogy is not quite accurate. Were the park built on a nuclear waste dump the park itself would be hazardous. The townspeople utilizing the park would, without doubt, suffer injury. Let me try a different analogy.

 

Let's say there's a playground equipment company. This company has donated land and equipment for a park in the middle of town. They ask certain townspeople to volunteer to keep an eye on things, and as much as possible, see that no one gets hurt. The townspeople visit daily, play, read, talk with each other, share recipes and child raising tips, and in general get to know each other very well. All well and good.

 

One day the company is accused by an out of town rival of not only stealing trade secrets, but the actual joints that make their playground equipment more sturdy and resistant to damage than others. All of a sudden, the park is besieged by the rival's customers who call the townspeople names, throw mud at them, and generally make a mess of the park. Note that the rival's customers attack the townspeople, not the factory.

 

This goes on for a few days. Some of the townspeople stay away from the park because they don't want to be hurt or harassed, and most of the rival's customers eventually get tired of being butt heads and go away.

 

After an inspection, the playground equipment company admits that mistakes were made, apologizes, replaces all the super duper joints with standard ones, and vows to eventually make the park better than it was before. Over time most of the townspeople return and things sort of return to normal.

 

From time to time a few of the rival's customers return to the park and, claiming moral superiority, curse the townspeople for continuing to enjoy the park.

 

That pretty much brings us up to date.

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Hi Dave

Good analogy!!

Thanks!!!

Cheers

solbjerg

 

 

Hi So_sad,

 

Welcome back.

 

Your analogy is not quite accurate. Were the park built on a nuclear waste dump the park itself would be hazardous. The townspeople utilizing the park would, without doubt, suffer injury. Let me try a different analogy.

 

Let's say there's a playground equipment company. This company has donated land and equipment for a park in the middle of town. They ask certain townspeople to volunteer to keep an eye on things, and as much as possible, see that no one gets hurt. The townspeople visit daily, play, read, talk with each other, share recipes and child raising tips, and in general get to know each other very well. All well and good.

 

One day the company is accused by an out of town rival of not only stealing trade secrets, but the actual joints that make their playground equipment more sturdy and resistant to damage than others. All of a sudden, the park is besieged with the rival's customers who call the townspeople names, throw mud at them, and generally make a mess of the park. Note that the rival's customers attack the citizens, not the factory.

 

This goes on for a few days. Some of the townspeople stay away from the park because they don't want to be hurt or harassed, and some of the rival's customers eventually get tired of being butt heads and go away.

 

After an inspection, the playground equipment company admits that mistakes were made, apologizes, replaces all the super duper joints with standard ones, and vows to eventually make the park better than it was before. Over time most of the townspeople return and things sort of return to normal.

 

From time to time a few of the rival's customers visit the park and, claiming moral superiority, curse the townspeople for continuing to enjoy the park.

 

That pretty much brings us up to date.

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So_sad,

 

For what it's worth, I don't count you in the "butt head" crowd. You're obviously intelligent, knowledgeable and experienced, and have chosen to discuss rather than harass. As far as I'm concerned you're a part of our little community now. Don't get hurt on the monkey bars. :-P :grin:

 

Dave

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Hi Dave

 

Very Very Very nice Dave. Thanks for that. Don't visit this tread much. Don't care for the trouble makers but we let them spew their hate here and even answer them. You just answered them my friend 10 X 10. I'm glad I chose to visit this thread today. I doubt if they can answer your post today and probably have their head hanging pretty low. You have put them where they belong crawling on their belly like a snake in the grass which they are. Nice job my friend. I'll be back later to see their answer, but doubt if they have the courage or the gonads to answer you friend. Nice Dave real nice.---garybear

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hi i do not know if it was a rescue job.but thanks ..

 

 

yes its a nice park ta ta play in

 

1st thing one should understand pick a fight .no you got this wrong.

2nd no one here want ta be a top dog.or sound if thy are.

3rd we welcome any one .but there a a few rules.there has ta be.

 

nothing to hard ,but i think its called civil play nice.even i forget this and then told .BE NICE..

 

4th try ta help where we can.and many here spend hours in resupply the anser to a problem.

as for the company itself .thy given us the park ta play in ,look after ourselfs

after all thy pay the bills.for us ta use it.nothing els is wanted nor ask from them

nor we ask any more from them...so to post to us as for .why thy did this or that ,ya have to Email them.you get a answer or ya do not.we here know as much as you .whatever thy tell us .not that this is a worry.not to me any how..as for why ? well sorry .cant help ya.so for any one to abuse us here is pointless ..non productive .and distasteful. i hope this is right words..

 

 

the whole point lets all play nice.and get along.like i say you are a nice writer

and ,well hope join in and help as well is the point.if i was bringing up a old post i did not see that.nor meant to ..

 

by the way i am itsmejjj a old fella ,with time on his hands ,find it well spent here..and hope you may conclude ta join in with us..? the more the merrymakers...there are the better..i cant find the fancy words ta print but i think you know my ask..and as far as i see it hy you are welcome..

 

itsmejjj

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Hi So_sad,

 

Welcome back.

 

Your analogy is not quite accurate. Were the park built on a nuclear waste dump the park itself would be hazardous. The townspeople utilizing the park would, without doubt, suffer injury. Let me try a different analogy.

 

Let's say there's a playground equipment company. This company has donated land and equipment for a park in the middle of town. They ask certain townspeople to volunteer to keep an eye on things, and as much as possible, see that no one gets hurt. The townspeople visit daily, play, read, talk with each other, share recipes and child raising tips, and in general get to know each other very well. All well and good.

 

One day the company is accused by an out of town rival of not only stealing trade secrets, but the actual joints that make their playground equipment more sturdy and resistant to damage than others. All of a sudden, the park is besieged by the rival's customers who call the townspeople names, throw mud at them, and generally make a mess of the park. Note that the rival's customers attack the townspeople, not the factory.

 

This goes on for a few days. Some of the townspeople stay away from the park because they don't want to be hurt or harassed, and most of the rival's customers eventually get tired of being butt heads and go away.

 

After an inspection, the playground equipment company admits that mistakes were made, apologizes, replaces all the super duper joints with standard ones, and vows to eventually make the park better than it was before. Over time most of the townspeople return and things sort of return to normal.

 

From time to time a few of the rival's customers return to the park and, claiming moral superiority, curse the townspeople for continuing to enjoy the park.

 

That pretty much brings us up to date.

 

Haha, that was great. I enjoyed that and I'm from the other town. MBAM is superior in detection rate to IObit without a doubt, I remember recent tests without MBAM's definitions and oh boy has IObits detection rates dropped.

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Since you've cleaned up of the data base, I've re-installed the program.

Now it's up to every one to make it better.

 

So Iobit can be run alongside any major vendor such as Norton Internet Security Suite etc? without major conflicts? If so I may install as additional security.

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Hi Nebular

I haven't heard of any problem at the moment, but several once in a long while do have a false positive, from I suppose heuristic scanning.

Most notably McAfee in the past months.

I have Microsoft Security Essentials running alongside IS360, but I do not run the option automatic scanning or automatic download in IS360 - the rest I do run.

Cheers

solbjerg

 

So Iobit can be run alongside any major vendor such as Norton Internet Security Suite etc? without major conflicts? If so I may install as additional security.
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Hello folks :-P

 

Sorry if I've kept anybody waiting, truely sorry.

 

JustDave : man, that was a good read. I enjoyed it quite a bit (or quiteObit ;-) ). I was speechless and had to regroup. Honestly, I just haven't had time to visit the park lately, but I must find a little time...

 

You know what, after reading that I just had to go back and read mine again. It kinda sucked, I must admit... Yours isn't perfect either and I'll tell you why. In my part of the world (not that far from you I gather), town parks are funded by taxpayers and heavily regulated/inspected, for safety, especially when playground equipment is present.

 

Now, let's assume some company was granted a contract to put up this equipment and it turns out they stole intellectual property to build "super duper" stuff for the park. The job was done according to safety regulations and all inspections by the city/town showed no problems. Fine, the kids can play. Folks are happy. Then, the news drops in the local newspaper that a lawsuit has been filed against the company. That's how it would happen, because the out-of-town guys who own intellectual property on the equipment would not seek an injunction to shut the park down, nope... they would seek for financial repairs. The park is up and the equipment is safe, so the city would also push for a court settlement instead of trouble at the park. Local law enforcement would see to it that no one disturbs the peace there, and let the lawyers handle the legal issues.

 

Now, let's assume the company hires a Top Gun lawyer and is able to stall proceedings, throw enough smoke up everybody's faces so that a settlement would only happen years down the road... and the little out-of-towners give up because they don't have the time nor the money to fight these [insert whichever word comes to your mind here]. These honest folks build great playground equipment, the best actually, but they don't have the resources nor the time to fight an ugly battle, so they let the matter drop.

 

What happens next ? The folks will still come to the park and let the kids play, but they'll know. They'll keep coming because a park's biggest asset is its location. People don't care to walk 45 extra minutes with the stroller so that kids can play in the other park across town, it just doesn't make any sense. What happens to the company who got away with it ? They sink, because everybody knows. Park equipment suppliers and builders are few and anyone involved in the trade or looking to buy will know, so they will never work in that part of the country ever again. Time to pack it up adn move on.

Or... the good guys win and get compensation for what belongs to them. The park stays the same but they will do the maintenance from then on and the other guys will split with their tails between their legs.

 

===

 

The main difference between park equipment and anti-malware tools is this : anti-malware tools are only a few clics away for anyone looking and the industry is largely unregulated. Money comes directly out of your pocket. It's a jungle out there so finding the right information can be quite a challenge for novices. So they look for flash, tests (any test will do - good or bad) and take the plunge. Those who know how and where to look for pertinent information will find whatever is there to be found, and make up their own minds.

People looking for a park will go to the closest one and expect safety because regulations are in place. Unless organized crime is running City Hall, hahaha. Hey, it's been known to happen.

 

==

==

 

Helpers aren't a forum's foundations, not in my book ; they are the structure, built onto the foundations. No foundations ($$), no forum. No structure (helpers), no forum either. Having a good struture lay atop battered foundations is possible, but a risky affair, especially when the water starts pouring in.

Abandon ship, or set up the pumps and pray for a miracle...

 

To itsmejjj : you're a major hoot dude. Keep it up, you definitely put a big smile on my face :-D

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Hi jim

You are absolutely right!!

 

Hi so_sad

"I just haven't had time to visit the park lately, but I must find a little time..."

Don't strain yourself!

I don't think you have left onyone here in any doubts as to your position on this issue.

After all you have belaboured your point in 12 posts!! Eloquently I may add :-)

Have a nice Christmas!

Cheers

solbjerg

 

 

 

 

OMG, can you just let it go, honestly. You need to have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year dude. Hope you do.
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Thank you for the good wishes, Jim and solbjerg :grin:

 

To all forum helpers : may this Holiday season bring you peace, happiness and why not a few nice gifts to go along with it. I know I'm getting some computer parts, because I cheated and ordered them myself. Ho-ho-ho ! :mrgreen:

 

This is post "lucky thirteen" for me and hopefully the last. The park should be peaceful from now on.

 

May the new year bring good health, fewer malware and better tools to fight them 8-)

 

Cheers to all,

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So_sad: Thanks for the kind words. I've "enjoyed" your posts too. ;-)

 

You're right, no analogy is perfect. I was just trying to illustrate the wrongheadedness of MBAM users attacking and ridiculing fellow users.

 

Yes, the townspeople "know." Some of them actually agree with many of your points. Some, for ethical reasons (because association does imply permission), were even ready to abandon the "park" when IObit did that about face and rebuilt the IS360 database, pulling the disputed content and apologizing for "mistakes." Did IObit have to do that? Probably not really; they're located in China and are essentially untouchable. The fact that they did the right thing anyway indicates to me that they're serious about playing in the PC utility and security markets and that they want their offerings to stand on their own. I count that a good thing. We'll see where it goes.

 

The only thing I would add to your penultimate (I love that word) post is that yes, location is important, but the biggest assets are actually the friendships made in that location.

 

As for me, I'm still running both IS360 and MBAM and hanging out with friends in the "park." Life is good.

 

Later,

Dave

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Ah heck... here comes post #14.

 

Dave : thank you for that. With all the rhetoric, name calling and whatnot, this is good. We have achieved mutual understanding and I'm satisfied with your stand on the many issues at hand. Not that you care, maybe you do, but I'm satisfied.

 

Enjoy the Holiday season and let's hope for good things in 2010.

 

Happy trails, and long live forum helpers.

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Chendu

 

IObit

 

In the province of the four rivers

where IObit produces

tectonian plates sent shivers

down the backs of IObit users.

 

But the company stands firm

in the midst of structure collapse.

Regroups for the coming term

developing new apps.

 

The forum will try to respond

by giving a helping hand,

relationships grow fond

among members of our band.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Long Time uSER...

 

I have been a very satisfied longtime user of iobits software. I have a pro license for all of your products that have them available and find them very helpful. Although I had noticed security 360 to be pretty weak lately. Not a big deal because I use it as a backup with BitDefender Total Security 2010 doing the bulk of my protection. Well I did run into another issue recently and as usual downloaded Malwarebytes to do a full scan in safe mode just in case as I always do. I guess I need to keep up to date on the news better because I had no idea about the "scandal" going on...

 

I have since decided to uninstall all of iobits products and here is why.

#1 I conducted the tests myself with detection rates on 1.1 vs. 1.2 as posted in the MBAM forum and concur

#2 I actualy found Windows Defender to sadly be more effective.

#3 However, my main reason with breaking ties with the company is simple, I read many many posts by people with valid questions that were not even attempted to be answered. They were actually disregarded by the moderators like the stupid guy at work who just get's laughed at when he asks a dumb question.

 

Well I'll tell ya one thing. I train salesman for a living and would expect every last one of them to have been able to run circles around anyone asking similar questions about our products, even in the same situations. I would have accepted a weak apology, blaming it on a ghost employee, piles of BS(would have been much more preferable), or anything but the "I'm above answering that attitude"

 

So, even though my pro licenses are good, I have uninstalled my products and will take my business elsewhere!

 

I'm sure some business manager will be reading this with a grin thinking he at least did his job by getting my money... Well I never actually paid for anything, I hacked the regs all by myself. You guys are actually one of the easiest which why I was using your software so the jokes on you... ARHHH!!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: ::INSERT WOODY WOOD PECKER LAUGH::

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