"No defrag needed" policy

[BugDigger]

Hi all.

 

I can see in report a lot of records like:

 

Fragments Size Result

71 6.1 MB No defrag needed C:\Program Files\SomeApp\Some.dll

379 22.4 MB No defrag needed C:\Program Files\Microsoft Analysis Services\AS OLEDB\10\msmdlocal.dll

985 9.9 MB No defrag needed C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\OFFICE12\1033\MSOINTL.DLL

 

Why these files are "no defrag needed" ?..

[Octavian]

Hi all.

 

I can see in report a lot of records like:

 

Fragments Size Result

71 6.1 MB No defrag needed C:\Program Files\SomeApp\Some.dll

379 22.4 MB No defrag needed C:\Program Files\Microsoft Analysis Services\AS OLEDB\10\msmdlocal.dll

985 9.9 MB No defrag needed C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\OFFICE12\1033\MSOINTL.DLL

 

Why these files are "no defrag needed" ?..

 

If the rate of defragmentation after scan is less then 5% this mean that it is not necessary to run a deep defragmentation.

[BugDigger]

As you can see in my example, file MSOINTL.DLL has 985 (!) fragments. We can hardly say that the file does not require defragmentation.

[enoskype]

Hi BugDigger,

 

Please attach the screenshot of the General Settings page of Settings of Smart Defrag v3.

 

Cheers.

[BugDigger]

OK, my settings:

[BugDigger]

Also "No defrag needed" can be misleading, see my comment to

 

Misleading and completely wrong information

http://forums.iobit.com/showthread.php?t=16471

[enoskype]

Hi BugDigger,

 

Please untick the checkbox "Skip files larger than 500 MB" and try again.

 

See if;

Fragments Size Result

71 6.1 MB No defrag needed C:\Program Files\SomeApp\Some.dll

379 22.4 MB No defrag needed C:\Program Files\Microsoft Analysis Services\AS OLEDB\10\msmdlocal.dll

985 9.9 MB No defrag needed C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\OFFICE12\1033\MSOINTL.DLL

are the same.

 

With some other definitions in settings, the map definitions have changed in Smart Defrag v3, so some of the translations are still defining the old version, I believe IObit will correct all languages in the next updated version.

 

Unfortunately Russian is not corrected in your version, but wait for the next one and please correct if you see any misleading definitions.

 

Cheers.

[austingrd]

Those are DLL files so I think in theory, those files don't need to be defrag? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[BugDigger]

Hi enoskype.

Thank you for your help.

 

I see no big difference. For example:

 

254 fragments 5.8 MB "No defrag needed" C:\Program Files\<...>\Word_XP.h

 

I have ~10% of free space on C:. I know that defragmenter needs ~15% to work better. Perhaps this is my main problem but it does not explain why highly fragmented files are marked as "No defrag needed".

 

I'll wait for the new version/translation. At moment it seems that Russian message (no space) is more correct than Enlish (no defrag needed).

[BugDigger]

Those are DLL files so I think in theory, those files don't need to be defrag? Please correct me if I'm wrong.[/img]

 

austingrd, you are wrong. :roll:

 

DLLs are executables (like exe), fragmentation of executables leads to performance degradation.

[Scannan]

austingrd, you are wrong. :roll:

 

DLLs are executables (like exe), fragmentation of executables leads to performance degradation.

 

BugDigger

 

I am afraid that it is you who are mistaken. DLL's are not executables. They are Dynamic Link Libraries, and they are used to allow multiple instances of the same instruction from different programs to operate. A DLL cannot be executed by itself.

[BugDigger]

I am afraid that it is you who are mistaken. DLL's are not executables. They are Dynamic Link Libraries, and they are used to allow multiple instances of the same instruction from different programs to operate. A DLL cannot be executed by itself.

 

DLL cannot be executed by itself but they contain executable code (excepting pure resource dlls). In any case (loading dll with EXECUTABLE code or loading resources form dll) fragmentation of dlls has the SAME negative effect on system performance as fragmentation of exes.

[BugDigger]

I have ~10% of free space on C:. I know that defragmenter needs ~15% to work better. Perhaps this is my main problem but it does not explain why highly fragmented files are marked as "No defrag needed".

 

OK, after some manipulations (moving files from C: to D: + creation of junction points) I have ~28% of free space on drive C: but I see the same problem: a lot of files in Windows, Program Files, and Documents are not defragmented ("no need"). Current fragmentaition rate is ~31%.

[Cicely]

Hi BugDigger,

 

Thanks for your continual feedbacks.

 

Could you please send us the screenshots to show your setting" Defragment when fragmentation exceeds"? Please refer to my attachment.

 

Guide for taking screenshot.

 

http://graphicssoft.about.com/cs/general/ht/winscreenshot.htm

 

Looking forward to hearing from you.

[enoskype]

Hi Cicely,

 

As far as I see BugDigger uses "Always Defrag" as seen in his screenshot in post #5 of this thread.

 

Also, I think he has unticked "Skip files larger than 500 MB" option after that screenshot.

 

Cheers.

[BugDigger]

Could you please send us the screenshots to show your setting" Defragment when fragmentation exceeds"?

 

Hi, Cicely.

 

My settings are as in attachment ("always defrag").

 

After some investigation I've found that some files marked as "no defrag needed" are in compressed folders (for example C:\WINDOWS\$NtUninstallKBxxxxxx$ or C:\WINDOWS\Installer). Does it affect defragmenter? I mean 2 possible effects:

- compressed files can not be defragmented (?) but they add fragmented % to reports;

- compressed files can not be moved (?) and hamper the progress of defragmentation (i.e. they break disk space on small parts).

[Cicely]

Hi BugDigger,

 

Thanks for your feedback.

 

Can you open these compressed folders manually? If you can not open them, then SD can not defrag them.

 

Looking forward to your reply

[BugDigger]

Can you open these compressed folders manually?

 

Yes, I can, no doubt. :-)

 

I moved compressed foldefs (all of them are Win updater related) on drive D: (using junction points). Now free space on C: is ~40%, fragmentation level is ~13% (compared to ~30% before moving).

 

It looks like compressed folders have big impact. Could anybody in techical team say how defragmenter works with compressed folders?

 

-----------------------------------------------------------

 

OK, now I see in analizer and defrag reports mostly files from

- sys vol info\_restore;

- C:\docs&settings (temporary files);

- "busy" files (running executables or opened data files I believe) like

 

229 fragments 12.0 MB C:\WINDOWS\system32\drivers\nv4_mini.sys

787 fragments 49.1 MB C:\Program Files\Java\jre7\lib\rt.jar

1288 fragments 69.2 MB C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\OFFICE14\MSORES.DLL

 

- rarely used files like

 

592 fragments 32.7 MB C:\Program Files\NVIDIA Corporation\Installer2\Display.PhysX.0\PhysX_9.12.0604_SystemSoftware.msi

 

Is there any chance to defrag them (forcedly)?

 

-------------------

 

BTW, fragmentation level on D: is ~0%, good job, thank you. :-)

[enoskype]

Hi BugDigger,

 

You can try to defragment those three files by single file defragmentation either adding them in SD (click + Add file... on the GUI) or using right click menu of the file (click Defrag by Smart Defrag), or move the files to volume D:\ and then move them back to their original locations in C: drive.

 

If they are not in use by the PC, they will be defragmented in volume C: since you have sufficient contiguous free space in volume C:

 

Cheers.

[BugDigger]

or move the files to volume D:\ and then move them back to their original locations in C: drive. If they are not in use by the PC, they will be defragmented in volume C: since you have sufficient contiguous free space in volume C:

 

OK, but this is exactly what defragmenter should do automatically (defragment files if this possible) instead of useless "No defrag needed" messages. :-D

[BugDigger]

I've added file

 

1288 fr. 69.2 MB No defrag needed C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\OFFICE14\MSORES.DLL

 

to the list of objects. After defragmentation of the file I see status "Defragmented" in list, but report still states:

 

1288 fr. 69.2 MB No defrag needed C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\OFFICE14\MSORES.DLL

 

System tool (Unlocker) states that at moment this file is not locked.

 

So the result is very strange: highly fragmented non-blocked file on drive with ~40% free space can not be defragmented even manually.

 

If I try setting boot time defragmentation of the file, I see the message "Boot time dfg doesn't support files/forlers added by user".

[Scannan]

BugDigger

 

Some files will not be defragged if the program sees them as either critical or system files. The file you are trying to defragment is a .DLL file, which is a Dynamic Link Library file. This type of file is a link between various programs and processes and could therefore be in use in a critical area and would not defrag.

The boottime defrag is designed to defrag certain files during the boot process, before the associated programs are loaded. These are critical files and cannot be defragged once the computer is in use.

I think that Iobit need to look at why your particular .DLL file will not defrag automatically during the boottime defrag.

[enoskype]

Hi BugDigger,

 

Since it is a non-system file, I would try to exit/stop anything related to Office 2010 (including any related item to Office in startup), and then try to defragment single file.

 

Did you try the move method to another volume and move back to original location?

 

Does it allow you to copy it to a different location in the same C: (system) drive? If yes, copy it first please.

 

Cheers.

[BugDigger]

Hi all.

 

These are critical files and cannot be defragged once the computer is in use.

 

This file is not critical and (as special tool definitely shows) is not locked.

 

I think that Iobit need to look at why your particular .DLL file will not defrag automatically during the boottime defrag.

 

I see no reason why many highly fragmented files are ignored. As you can see the title of this thread is ""No defrag needed" policy"; IMHO this policy is not consistent (or result in report is misleading).

 

Since it is a non-system file, I would try to exit/stop anything related to Office 2010 (including any related item to Office in startup), and then try to defragment single file.

 

File is not locked (checked with special utility) and all Office-related applications are off.

 

Did you try the move method to another volume and move back to original location?

 

No (probably I'll try after weekend just out of curiosity). I know, this will work, but main question is defragmentation policy, not one file.

 

As a side note I have to say that manual moving of files is dangerous (at least in theory): you can move some (free at moment) system file, next second OS can request it and hang up. After reboot you can get unworkable OS. Special defrag API makes defragmentation safe.

[Scannan]

I did not say that your file is a critical file...I said it may have an association with one or more critical files. A single dll file can be associated with dozens of files/applications and some of those may be critical.