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Accusation Thread - Dispute


solbjerg

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Unfortunate! So_sad

 

It really is so sad that your believe there are only two "types" of "helpers" on forums. Classifying people so narrowly and concluding that you can fit them into such a small box. I wonder?? the question being is the forum half full, or is the forum half empty? Which of the "two types" do I fit into? Am I black? Am I white? Perhaps I'm speckled... or maybe polka-dotted!

 

I have faith in time. Time doesn't change. I have hope in people. People don't change. (As a historical group/species/individual)

 

Thanks again for being here!

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Hi So_sad

What a shame that you felt you had to add some "humour" to your apology. Making it a continued ridicule! Sad!

 

"Statements/declarations by some "lovely IOBIt girl" really say a lot about transparency and accountability. Crafty, but truly unconvincing smoke.

 

A trap is a trap is a trap."

(quote is not quite verbatim - I corrected the spelling mistake truely to truly - hope you don't mind)

 

Krissy's Statements/declarations can be read "from the horse's mouth"

in the IObit blog. She just posted her interpretation in the forum for the convenience of forum users.

 

 

A trap - like a rose - comes in many flavours.

(And the allusion is to a literary statement - not a scientific one)

And as it was carefully crafted in what Mbam calls secrecy - what more aren't they telling?

Your suggestion on how the samples ended up in IObit's malware list was that some Mbam employee sold it to IObit.

This should be verifiable if one can follow the money trail.

 

A lot of the "evidence" has not come to light neither is it sufficiently clearly explained, so in that sense my conclusion is still in abeyance.

What I originally wrote in this thread was an account of the sequence of events - which in my view suggests a different motive than what Mbam is divulging.

 

Why did they want the user tests of malware detection stopped?

They fared well in most of the tests, - especially those containing virus samples.

 

But OK, - let us wait for more light to be shed on this.

 

Cheers

solbjerg

 

 

 

Hi solbjerg ;

 

I see that chivalry is still alive in your part of the world :grin:

It's still alive here, as well.

 

So without further ado : my apologies to "Krissy".

Not sure what I'm apologizing for though, but I'll give it my best shot : I'm sorry for calling you "cute".

Uhm no... that wasn't very nice. She could be cute.

She could also be very cute !... or a guy maybe ? :x

Should I also apologize for all the "smoke" ? Krissy could be a heavy smoker, for all I know ;)

 

All kidding aside (yes, I have a sense of humour) ; "Krissy" is the closest thing I've seen to an IOBit representative, here on the forums. Maybe she/he is the big boss (hey, I live in the West and although we don't have full equality yet, we're getting there). Maybe she/he is a public relations rep., or the boss' wife, or an office clerk. Problem is, there is no ID behind the nickname ; no name, no title. I hate faceless corporations. Plenty all over, not just in China.

 

You're probably asleep right now so I won't attack, promise 8-)

 

I think we've come full circle, you and I. Thank you for allowing me to post. I would, however, reply to "Krissy" if she/he ever showed up.

 

Final note (prevention) : I do not work for MBAM, nor was I sent here by anybody. You'll just have to take my word for it ;)

 

Edit : I will return later to reply to Melvin Deal (took me too long to post). Edit #2 for a typographic mistake.

 

=======

 

Let your conscience be your guide

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Krissy is here.

 

We haven’t spread any rumors or bad words of MBAM and will not, because we are still working. For us, these things are not important, we will not hype our company or product with the way that MBAM have used.

 

The elephant in the room is too big to ignore Krissy.

 

Since the MBAM accusation and as responce IObit 360 signature database has shrunk by nearly half after the removal of disputed detections.

 

Many independent testers have now verified that the dog has lost its teeth 1.3 is absolutely useless compared to 1.1 default database and still smoke and mirrors are cast by your company.

 

Why once challenge people to compare your software to MBAM and publish results because you knew that you would beat them everytime.

 

Simple equation

 

IObit database+ signatures from MBAM database + others database then you knew you would win hands down(Head to head) and everyone lauds a new up and coming super software.

 

Better than the best!

 

Once you removed MBAM signatures from your database under the smoke of a new program update....IOBit went from fantastic tool to mediocre/poor tool in a heart beat.

 

You then dont want your loyal testers and users to see that the dog has no teeth so you close your comparitive testing competition.

 

Anyone care to put 1.2 or 1.3 head to head with MBAM today ?

 

No i dont think any IObit fans or staff would care to or even publish their results...Why is this ? Better things todo or truth is painful to see:mrgreen:

 

You state that MBAM pulled a publicity stunt, well maybe your mistake was your testing publicity stunt after merging a large portion of the MBAM database and that is what brought eyes to bear on your application.

 

Goodluck in building your database back up,i'm sure it took MBAM years to build theirs to its current state!

 

~MZ

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Hi Max Zorin

You cannot have been following the tests all that closely, in several tests

Mbam did very good - in some much better than IObit, - usually in he tests that incorporated viruses in the malware samples though.

And it certainly isn't being ignored, IObit has explained the loose practice they had in gathering definitions and apologized - have pulled all items from their database that was submitted there without checking in order to avoid future dispute about this according to their own statement.

This of course diminishes the effectiveness of the application but I expect them to build it up again.

Your mentioning of 50% is biased I think, - have you yourself conducted a fair test that gave that result and computed the numbers into percentages?

Please submit it with numbers and all for verification as to method of computing.

By the way - this part of the thread still is about the sequence of events.

Cheers

solbjerg

p.s.

I took a look into as how it is now:

IS360 v. 1.1.0.30 Define Version:1269 = core.def 4.562.334

(numbers from a link I found in one of your posts)

IS360 v. 1.3.0.10 = core.def 2.962.915 (current)

(numbers from my own IS360 version)

That is 64,94% of its former size

A data base diminished by approximately 35% is the current status

(looks like they will soon be up to speed)

 

 

 

The elephant in the room is too big to ignore Krissy.

 

Since the MBAM accusation and as responce IObit 360 signature database has shrunk by nearly half after the removal of disputed detections.

 

Many independent testers have now verified that the dog has lost its teeth 1.3 is absolutely useless compared to 1.1 default database and still smoke and mirrors are cast by your company.

 

Why once challenge people to compare your software to MBAM and publish results because you knew that you would beat them everytime.

 

Simple equation

 

IObit database+ signatures from MBAM database + others database then you knew you would win hands down(Head to head) and everyone lauds a new up and coming super software.

 

Better than the best!

 

Once you removed MBAM signatures from your database under the smoke of a new program update....IOBit went from fantastic tool to mediocre/poor tool in a heart beat.

 

You then dont want your loyal testers and users to see that the dog has no teeth so you close your comparitive testing competition.

 

Anyone care to put 1.2 or 1.3 head to head with MBAM today ?

 

No i dont think any IObit fans or staff would care to or even publish their results...Why is this ? Better things todo or truth is painful to see:mrgreen:

 

You state that MBAM pulled a publicity stunt, well maybe your mistake was your testing publicity stunt after merging a large portion of the MBAM database and that is what brought eyes to bear on your application.

 

Goodluck in building your database back up,i'm sure it took MBAM years to build theirs to its current state!

 

~MZ

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Hi Max Zorin

"Solberg you cannot excuse away block copy and pasting of another vendors unpacked database "loose practice with gathering definitions""

 

I didn't - That was IObit's declaration!

 

But please we have heard all your moral certitude many many times.

Why not try you hand at something more interesting?

I thought the bit about the size of the database had merit.

If you had read my p.s. in my former post you would have seen that the database as of now is 35% less than it was when it was at its largest.

"p.s.

I took a look into as how it is now:

IS360 v. 1.1.0.30 Define Version:1269 = core.def 4.562.334

(numbers from a link I found in one of your posts)

IS360 v. 1.3.0.10 = core.def 2.962.915 (current)

(numbers from my own IS360 version)

That is 64,94% of its former size

A data base diminished by approximately 35% is the current status

(looks like they will soon be up to speed)"

 

Also the question about the sequence of events has apparently not captured your attention.

 

I would also recommend that you study the results of ALL the comparison tests conducted in the competition thread, before asserting your opinion about them.

 

Cheers

solbjerg

 

p.s. I have been using the word database, - this is actually not correct I should have called it the "core definition file", sorry.

The database in Mbam is written in VB (Visual Basic) according to information recieved.

The database in IS360 is written in Delphi according to information recieved.

So their databases are not interchangeable!!

 

 

Hi Max Zorin

You cannot have been following the tests all that closely, in several tests

Mbam did very good - in some much better than IObit, - usually in he tests that incorporated viruses in the malware samples though.

And it certainly isn't being ignored, IObit has explained the loose practice they had in gathering definitions and apologized - have pulled all items from their database that was submitted there without checking in order to avoid future dispute about this according to their own statement.

This of course diminishes the effectiveness of the application but I expect them to build it up again.

Your mentioning of 50% is biased I think, - have you yourself conducted a fair test that gave that result and computed the numbers into percentages?

Please submit it with numbers and all for verification as to method of computing.

By the way - this part of the thread still is about the sequence of events.

Cheers

solbjerg

 

Thankyou for your responce solberg :)

 

I did conduct some personal checks...your figure of 50 % well was 47% by my testing and also confirmed by others.

IObit Security 360

 

Version:1.1.0.30 Default Install database= 3,918,757 bytes

 

Version:1.1.0.30 Define Version:1269 = 4.562.334 bytes**

 

Version:1.2.0.10 Default install database= 2.392.696 bytes

 

** This is the size of the core database after the last update before release of 1.2.0.10

 

This represents by my calculations that their core database has shrunk by 47.5%

 

I also read elsewhere that the whole MBAM database was not used as there was some signatures that were incompatible with the IObit engine (POLY= something or other + another one) would'nt read so were not stolen.

 

Solberg you cannot excuse away block copy and pasting of another vendors unpacked database "loose practice with gathering definitions"

 

Its one thing to use the same naming protocol for a threat/malware,that is practiced and acceptable nor if that the case should have resulted in the culling of nearly half the database.

 

It is completely unethical and illegal to hack the competitions database and copy and paste the signatures they use on mass into your own database(Index 9).

 

That is theft in most spheres and the IObit 360 database cull was just to remove the evidence that was then available to the experts that had unpacked both databases and ran side by side comparison.(index 9= MBAM signatures utilized by IObit in the pre-culled database).

 

solberg its too big an elephant to fit through the door and leave the room unfortunetly :(

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Hello all ;

 

@Krissy : nice to see you ! :smile:

Yes, you do have some decent people (volunteers) helping out on these forums ; I've had a look around. Having them around is important, both for the members and for IObit.

I would like nothing more than to "meet" your development engineers, and the reason is simple : coding an efficient malware removal tool requires not only skill and hard work, but close ties with known and experienced malware hunters and analysts. I happen to know (from reading) many in this field. When we talk about malware, the world becomes much smaller because the "good people" know each other, usually. I have yet to put a face on anyone on the 360 development and/or research teams.

 

About the MBAM database : we're talking about tens of thousands of "lines" (entries) here, aren't we ? Saying that imprudent malware collecting practices have allowed so many lines of code to be submitted to your team is, well... impossible, to be polite. Submitting 20, 30 or 40 entries at one time, maybe, but imagine submitting 30.000 lines (this is just a figure used as an example) ? lol. This still doesn't explain the never released fake samples, which were impossible to collect.

A good, legitimate malware removal tool requires hard, hard work to achieve, but most importantly, it requires skill, knowledge of malware and many trusted sources if it is ever going to be efficient. Like I said before, the malware removal world is a small one...

 

=============

 

@Melvin_Deal : I'm sorry if you are offended that I have split forum helpers into two groups only : it was just to make a point. Helpers are as diverse as the problems they help to solve. If you know any malware fighters on forums, you'll understand what I meant... a different breed altogether. I'm not saying "better", just "different".

 

=============

 

@solbjerg : the sequence of events. I've addressed most of it already, but not the contest nor the "virus" detections. About the contest : I'd really like to get a copy, written or audio, of that conversation, if it ever occured. It's quite intriguing. Why would a CEO from one company call up the competition to "ask" that a contest be stopped ? If I were a CEO (I'm not), I wouldn't "ask", I would "insist" if I had legitimate concerns about the said contest. Perhaps it was a friendly warning, considering the content of the database ? Who knows ;)

About virus detections : I'm not sure exactly which detections have been added or if they are heuristics ; if 360 couldn't detect the same threats, then I'll assume they were heuristics therefore not in the db, so 360 couldn't handle them. You know, detecting and removing active threats requires a large spectrum of action, especially with all the worms out there. If one anti-malware program can attack them efficiently, that says a lot about the product. Remember that antivirus programs have been targetting trojans for 3-4 years now, something they didn't/wouldn't do before. Why ? Because the threats required they rethink their detections and customers expected them to perform. Cross detections are not only common and useful, they are essential, I think. Pure viruses (or "virii") are more rare these days, but worms are definitely popular. Worms can pack trojans, etc... so you can't draw a line anymore, not if you want to play in the big leagues.

 

I've apologized to Krissy as best I could, under the circumstances, with a bit of humour - Yes. She doesn't seem to hold any of it against me, so perhaps you should do the same ;)

 

You all have a great day now :-)

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Hi So_sad

Thanks for the kind words about us volunteers.

 

Regarding who you "know" in the malware fighting world, I think that several of IObit's staff are reluctant to post anything in English due to their language skills.

(My guees though) this could explain why you do not "know" them (I am assuming you do not speak, read or write Chinese)

 

About the database you are referring to, it would be better to refer to bytes I think - more correct.

And very many got pulled after the accusation and IObit's declaration, about 2 Mill. bytes as far as I have seen.

So the way they handled all these submissions were abominately slack.

(Another thing in my opinion is that such malware definition lists ought to be shared by all for the good of the user - the difference between different programs then boiling down to the quality of their malware engine and their heuristic engine)

I doubt very much that anyone is going to admit to having slipped those bogus samples into the collection sites or submitted them as an unknown camouflaged user.

 

About the sequence of events - I guees we will never know - I doubt the conversation was recorded. But it was refered to by Tim Zue in a post right after the accusation hit them in China.

And it does open up for a different interpretation of motives.

 

On a more personal note: I think there must be some article or book named "The art of apologizing"

But I have forgiven you :-)

Cheers

solbjerg

p.s. The one post you "threathened" to limit yourself to, has become several - but that's OK! :-)

 

 

Hello all ;

 

@Krissy : nice to see you ! :smile:

Yes, you do have some decent people (volunteers) helping out on these forums ; I've had a look around. Having them around is important, both for the members and for IObit.

I would like nothing more than to "meet" your development engineers, and the reason is simple : coding an efficient malware removal tool requires not only skill and hard work, but close ties with known and experienced malware hunters and analysts. I happen to know (from reading) many in this field. When we talk about malware, the world becomes much smaller because the "good people" know each other, usually. I have yet to put a face on anyone on the 360 development and/or research teams.

 

About the MBAM database : we're talking about tens of thousands of "lines" (entries) here, aren't we ? Saying that imprudent malware collecting practices have allowed so many lines of code to be submitted to your team is, well... impossible, to be polite. Submitting 20, 30 or 40 entries at one time, maybe, but imagine submitting 30.000 lines (this is just a figure used as an example) ? lol. This still doesn't explain the never released fake samples, which were impossible to collect.

A good, legitimate malware removal tool requires hard, hard work to achieve, but most importantly, it requires skill, knowledge of malware and many trusted sources if it is ever going to be efficient. Like I said before, the malware removal world is a small one...

 

=============

 

@Melvin_Deal : I'm sorry if you are offended that I have split forum helpers into two groups only : it was just to make a point. Helpers are as diverse as the problems they help to solve. If you know any malware fighters on forums, you'll understand what I meant... a different breed altogether. I'm not saying "better", just "different".

 

=============

 

@solbjerg : the sequence of events. I've addressed most of it already, but not the contest nor the "virus" detections. About the contest : I'd really like to get a copy, written or audio, of that conversation, if it ever occured. It's quite intriguing. Why would a CEO from one company call up the competition to "ask" that a contest be stopped ? If I were a CEO (I'm not), I wouldn't "ask", I would "insist" if I had legitimate concerns about the said contest. Perhaps it was a friendly warning, considering the content of the database ? Who knows ;)

About virus detections : I'm not sure exactly which detections have been added or if they are heuristics ; if 360 couldn't detect the same threats, then I'll assume they were heuristics therefore not in the db, so 360 couldn't handle them. You know, detecting and removing active threats requires a large spectrum of action, especially with all the worms out there. If one anti-malware program can attack them efficiently, that says a lot about the product. Remember that antivirus programs have been targetting trojans for 3-4 years now, something they didn't/wouldn't do before. Why ? Because the threats required they rethink their detections and customers expected them to perform. Cross detections are not only common and useful, they are essential, I think. Pure viruses (or "virii") are more rare these days, but worms are definitely popular. Worms can pack trojans, etc... so you can't draw a line anymore, not if you want to play in the big leagues.

 

I've apologized to Krissy as best I could, under the circumstances, with a bit of humour - Yes. She doesn't seem to hold any of it against me, so perhaps you should do the same ;)

 

You all have a great day now :-)

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Hi again solbjerg ;

 

I can assure you I have just one post ; it happens to be fragmented into... a couple :mrgreen:

(aiming for one signle post wasn't realistic on my part - touché).

 

I think I can leave now :wink:

 

Before I do, and this is about the sequence again, and virus detections ; I was still writing when Max Zorin posted his last message. Interersting bit about the incompatible definitions ; I hadn't picked up on that while reading.

 

About the sharing of "lists" : that's not impossible and may occur already. Not lists, but samples. Lists cannot and should not be incorporated into other programs, but samples can be verified and added. If your definition of "list" = "database", then I'm sorry but those are already coded to fit one program and musn't circulate (part of the intellectual property). You need a solid team to share and contribute with others in the field, day in and day out. You also need trust between sharing partners. Trust builds over time. Trusting someone with malware samples means you know a little about the people you share with ; you know they are not malware coders, you know they have ethical practices and you also can expect they will return the favour and share with you. If you don't have access to a program's developer or researcher(s), no trust can be achieved. Simple common sense here. The language barrier can be difficult to overcome, that's definitely true. Having said that, you need someone who can speak some English in order to develop partnerships, someone involved in development and research. That's pretty basic, for all industries, everywhere.

 

The present situation boils down to two possible scenarios, as far as I'm concerned (my opinion folks) :

 

1) One single developer decided to do this on his own, without anybody else in management being aware. Or...

2) Management knew, ordered it and/or approved it.

 

Either way, bad... for IObit. I don't envy Krissy's job, nor your positions on these forums. Sad...

 

Over and out.

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On a final note:

I have been using the word database, - this is actually not correct.

I should have called it the "core definition file", sorry!

 

The database in Mbam is written in VB (Visual Basic)

The database in IS360 is written in Delphi

So their databases are not interchangeable!!

Cheers

solbjerg

 

 

 

 

 

Hi again solbjerg ;

 

I can assure you I have just one post ; it happens to be fragmented into... a couple :mrgreen:

(aiming for one signle post wasn't realistic on my part - touché).

 

I think I can leave now :wink:

 

Before I do, and this is about the sequence again, and virus detections ; I was still writing when Max Zorin posted his last message. Interersting bit about the incompatible definitions ; I hadn't picked up on that while reading.

 

About the sharing of "lists" : that's not impossible and may occur already. Not lists, but samples. Lists cannot and should not be incorporated into other programs, but samples can be verified and added. If your definition of "list" = "database", then I'm sorry but those are already coded to fit one program and musn't circulate (part of the intellectual property). You need a solid team to share and contribute with others in the field, day in and day out. You also need trust between sharing partners. Trust builds over time. Trusting someone with malware samples means you know a little about the people you share with ; you know they are not malware coders, you know they have ethical practices and you also can expect they will return the favour and share with you. If you don't have access to a program's developer or researcher(s), no trust can be achieved. Simple common sense here. The language barrier can be difficult to overcome, that's definitely true. Having said that, you need someone who can speak some English in order to develop partnerships, someone involved in development and research. That's pretty basic, for all industries, everywhere.

 

The present situation boils down to two possible scenarios, as far as I'm concerned (my opinion folks) :

 

1) One single developer decided to do this on his own, without anybody else in management being aware. Or...

2) Management knew, ordered it and/or approved it.

 

Either way, bad... for IObit. I don't envy Krissy's job, nor your positions on these forums. Sad...

 

Over and out.

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Look who's here :wink:

 

No rest for me it seems.

 

VB ? Delphi ? This has already been addressed in another post, solbjerg.

Your friend, my friend : Google >> type convert visual basic to delphi

...[Enter]

 

May I go now ? I really wanna go, I swear !

 

Edited to show signature, on this post only ;)

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Must have missed that.

Well anything is possible as you say

but much much less is probable.

 

"You can check out any time you like - but you can never leave -" :-)

I mean:

"You can check out any time you like - but you don't ever leave -" :-)

Cheers

solbjerg

 

 

 

Look who's here :wink:

 

No rest for me it seems.

 

VB ? Delphi ? This has already been addressed in another post, solbjerg.

Your friend, my friend : Google >> type convert visual basic to delphi

...[Enter]

 

May I go now ? I really wanna go, I swear !

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Let's take a good hard look at the chain of events concerning the accusation from Mbam.

1. First IObit starts to collect malware definitions from various sources

This is done without very much supervision as to how the malware definitions are treated.

 

This may be true- but ask yourself how one of these "many" sources can have access to the exact malwarebytes database, which is encrypted within the program. It cannot be the case they had access to the exact same samples and exact same names as the malwarebytes detections.Not very good!

Indeed.

2. IObit offers the new program IObit Security 360 (IS360)

This receives an enormous interest and very, very many download the program.

3. IObit instigates a contest among users to determine which malware program performs best. With a prize for winners set at 1000$ and 25000$ to the final winner.

This generates much interest too, and very many comparisons - often set up as Charts also. IObit fares well in the comparison generally.

Some tests also have antivirus programs in them and as the malware base that are tested also has virus definitions incorporated the antivirus programs scores higher than the malware programs. Mbam scores high here?

4. IObit is approached by the president of Mbam that asks them to close down the contest.

IObit refuses

 

5. IObit is accused by Mbam of stealing their definition database.

Mbam claims that they had a "suspicion" and had set a "trap" for IObit by creating bogus malware definitions in their database.

Several questions arises from this:

a. How is it possible for IObit to enter Mbam's database?

 

A database is basically a file (or files) that are downloaded with your security program. Malwarebytes has it. Iobit has it, every antivirus has it.

 

To gain access to the the database someone will have to decrypt it, something that can be done quite easily with the needed skillset.

 

b. Why didn't Mbam just show that some of the same definitions were in IObits database already? (publicity stunt?)

 

I dont understand what you are saying here....

 

They did show that the same definitions were already in IOBits database. And then confirmed this wasn't just a lucky coincidence by adding files which don't exist into the malwarebytes database which are then magically also detected by IOBit a few days later. Thats not publicity stunt, thats called being caught with your pants down.

 

c. Why was the accusation released at the wee hours at night in China - they could have released it in the morning in the US to make it more probable that some IObit representative would be awake (smacks of manipulation)

 

Unfortunately this is just one of the many desperate excuses IOBit fans are clinging onto in the hope that it really is a big conspiracy. Why should Malwarebytes have to wait for IOBit to wake up? They are a US based company so they will release press statements in a time that is convinient to their locale. Wether or not IObit responds straight away or in a few hours is irrelevant.

 

d. Why were so many supporters of Mbam ready to join the IObit forum instantly and post verbal abuse on a Help forum?

Some of it inexcuseable abuse.

 

Probably because the good people of the internet do not believe in theft of a free product. However there are people which take things the wrong way and give abuse. Probably many were angry because of the lies and censorship they saw in this forum.

 

(more questions could be asked about the motive behind it, but I will let this suffice for now)

 

5.a. IObit issues a statement concerning the accusation

This statement is largely ignored or discounted by ranters and naggers in the forum

 

....because the statement (much like most of the IOBit fans here) tiptoed around the accusations and did not submit any concrete proof to refute the evidence presented. Awkward questions were just ignored or blamed on a sleepy employee.

 

6. Mbam threatens legal action.

Several US based download sites for IObit products discontinue to provide download opportunity for the products.

Major setback for IObit.

7. IObit closes down the comparison contest.

Sad day for many hopeful contesters!

 

Not just a sad day for the contesters...also a day when most IOBit fans should realise that IOBit is in the wrong, as they pull a large proportion of their database and now have a very low chance of pulling off good result in their own competition. If they were innocent, they would not delete approximately half of their database or close the contest.

 

8. The sites blocking download of IObit products open for download again.

Some agreement must have been reached between Mbam and IObit for this to happen.

Neither of them has issued a statement to that effect?

8.a. IObit issues a second statement concerning the accusatation

This is largely ignored by antagonists in the forum

 

Again, their statement doesn't address the issue of how a large portion of encrypted propretary data came to be included in the IOBit database. Half of a database being deleted can not be attributed to a sleepy employee adding samples without checking them. This accounts for many millions of records and simply could not be a coincidence! IOBit again tiptoe around the issue by saying they deleted the disputed records, but they did not reveal how many were deleted (although this is obvious by database size difference) nor who was responsible for the supposed "copying". Not once did an IOBit employee offer any explanation on the forum, all that was given was generic and non specific statements that were far from convincing.

 

9. The accusations in the forum has abated and the verbal abuse has become markedly less.

My guess is that the attention span of naggers are short, and perhaps many has begun questioning the motive behind this accusation.

 

Or maybe because IOBit deleted the stolen signatures and it is clear that there is no convincing the IOBIt employees (probably) sockpupetting on this forum?

 

10. Finally let me say that for IObit to downright steal from the presumably well protected database of Mbam would require a hacker of world class (I hope for Mbams sake), and then incorporate it without camouflaging it would be so stupid as to defy understanding.

This makes me believe that IObit's explanation on how the definitions became added to their database is true.

 

Actually it doesn't need a "world class hacker" any reasonably skilled computer graduate or self taught technical programmer could do this quite easily. Every database (INCLUDING IOBIT) has to be decrypted for the program to use it. To read this database in memory while it is being used by a program is TRIVIAL. Please stop making excuses and trying to legitimise the hacking of other programs. The issue isn't the skill required, the issue is that it is WRONG do to something like this.

 

Now either you guys are so dedicated to this product that your passion for it is blinding you sense of reason, or you lack the technical knowledge to understand the evidence presented and the feeble excuses given to you by IOBit, or thirdly my suspicion is that the large number of vocal moderators/fans/admins posting here are IOBit employees, which would explain their ignoring of genuine, but awkward questions posted here and the constant topic changing and excuses posted here, day after day. And thats my opinion, hopefully you will respect my right to hold it

 

Cheers

solbjerg

p.s. I first wrote it in "Let me tell you a true story", but decided it needed a thread of its own.

p.p.s. IObit's statements can be read in IObit's blog!

http://blog.iobit.com/archives/95.html

http://forums.iobit.com/showthread.php?t=4981

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Thanks Olol.

 

Your post is well researched, thought out, and well composed. I also have investigated personally many of these things.

 

You do make one major mistake in your post... the assumption/conclusion that ones here are paid.

 

Perhaps this forum and its constituents are different in that we trully are an altruistic community of support... not just some massively huge unpersonal, unresposive, blob!

 

The (Admins,Mods,senior members) here (have and will) continue to pay (appreciation/attention) to this!

 

This forum stands on its own. Our members do as well!

 

Oh Lots Of Laughs, Thanks again!

 

 

 

 

 

The real question is why do you put so much time and energy into posting here???

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....why was my message moved here when I was replying to a completely different thread?

 

I'll tell you....because I am answering awkward questions and by moving and detaching it from the "in support of IOBit" thread....the forum administration is once again trying to confuse readers and hide the awkward truths. Give me a good reason why I can't reply directly to that thread.

 

Mods, admins?

 

Anyone?

 

Your post is well researched, thought out, and well composed. I also have investigated personally many of these things.

 

You do make one major mistake in your post... the assumption/conclusion that ones here are paid.

 

Perhaps this forum and its constituents are different in that we trully are an altruistic community of support... not just some massively huge unpersonal, unresposive, blob!

 

The (Admins,Mods,senior members) here (have and will) continue to pay (appreciation/attention) to this!

 

This forum stands on its own. Our members do as well!

 

Oh Lots Of Laughs, Thanks again!

 

 

 

 

 

The real question is why do you put so much time and energy into posting here???

 

Edit:

If you really want to get an answer to your question, why don't you bother to look at that post in this thread. Prejudiced again?

Your contribution to the IObit Forum to be blocked by AVG is more than enough reason for your posts to be re-moved to this thread. http://forums.iobit.com/images/icons/icon8.gif enoskype

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Hi Olol

"This accounts for many millions of records "

This is not a true statement.

As said before approximately 2 Mill. Bytes were pulled from the def.dat file

and must have represented what IObit estimated was placed there without being checked. That represented approximately a 47% drop in what the def.dat had contained at its bulkiest.

Now however the def.dat is at approximately 65% of the bulkiest state. and it therefore looks like it won't be long before it has surpassed the former def.dat (definition database)

This in turn means that it won't be long before IS360 surpasses Mbam in detection rates.

Actually I think that this could be accomplished by adding virus definition files to the def.dat like Mbam apparently has done according to results seen in the competition tests.

And this is what interests the common user

Unfortunately the competion has had to stop, but that won't stop individuals from making comparisons,

As for slipping definitions into the collection sites - that should present no problem even for a novice in using the computer.

Mbam has of course been following IS360 closely since the program was released, anyone would take a look at the competition.

What more they have done I cannot say, but the sequence of events makes me suspicious of their motives.

Cheers

solbjerg

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Hi olol

If you had read what has been announced in the forum, all posts relating to the accusation will be moved into the Accusation thread.

This is done to avoid too much disruption of the running of this help forum.

Feel free to quote from other threads/posts in the forum but place your comments about accusation in the accusation thread, - if you don't, - we will move it there.

My thread was a posting aimed at the loyal members of this forum and has therefore not been moved into the accusation thread but copied.

Bottom line is that administrator(s) decides what gets to be moved.

Cheers

solbjerg

p.s. Actually the accusation thread does not belong in a help forum, but we decided to extend courtesy to naggers, abusers, ranters and genuinely concerned people to express their opinion in a thread we created for that purpose.

We have deleted and/or banned the most abusive abusers, naggers and ranters for various things - bad language and racial slur mostly or repeating their points of view incessantly.

 

 

....why was my message moved here when I was replying to a completely different thread?

 

I'll tell you....because I am answering awkward questions and by moving and detaching it from the "in support of IOBit" thread....the forum administration is once again trying to confuse readers and hide the awkward truths. Give me a good reason why I can't reply directly to that thread.

 

Mods, admins?

 

Anyone?

 

Edit:

If you really want to get an answer to your question, why don't you bother to look at that post in this thread. Prejudiced again?

Your contribution to the IObit Forum to be blocked by AVG is more than enough reason for your posts to be re-moved to this thread. http://forums.iobit.com/images/icons/icon8.gif enoskype

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
To solbjerg and all forum volunteers here ;

 

First, some info : I am not an IOBit costumer or user. Yes, I do use MBAM.

 

The reason why I'm here : to express my disbelief in what I'm reading. while keeping up the good work on the forums.

 

solbjerg (and others) had a hard position at first,?

 

I am shaking my head at the moment... The evidence presented concerning the MBAM database theft, by IOBit, leaves nothing to be questioned or to the imagination. yes sir i see you have one ..

 

Statements/declarations by some "lovely IOBIt girl" really say a lot about transparency and accountability. Crafty, but truly unconvincing smoke.

nice comment...but not very kind..

 

The idea that some poor screening of collected malware samples caused 360's database to include MBAM's is... so funny it's nauseating. Fake samples were never distributed outside of MBAM's management, so no submission to IOBit was possible. Period.

 

you say...

"Stealing" perhaps you mean possible copying.? singular,type

 

antivirus/antimalware tool's database requires lots of skill (reversing), but that can be achieved without having a genious on staff so please... Money is the best incentive here.

 

Some download sites have 360 back up. The stolen db has been (partially ?) removed, so some may feel it's now "ok" to host it. *Sigh*

 

The bit about breaking the story while China was sleeping ? Oh please. Look at how long it took for "them" to respond. perhaps thy may of been thinking.

its a joke? or scam,why would i reacted i someone pointed a finger?

but thy did ..

 

Could have happened while they were breaking for lunch, having dinner, having their lovely hair done ;-)<<<< bit sarcastic...

 

Who is IOBit management ? i really care less ,but if you realy want to know .check the mian page..ok the name is written!

 

 

 

Have any of them stopped by here ? Who's doing their research (360) ? Who's developing the software ? Might be nice to have officials identify themselves and participate ; thy have ya gala..thy have posted ,open ya eyes,and read..

 

it would go a long way to boost spirits around here I'm sure...

listed ya know who boost MEMBERS here ,ITSMEJJJ why ? thy love me posting .i can make um happy ..somtimes even hot them up a bit.

that's who ..and i am just one....

 

So... why are you folks still all here, helping on the forums after suffering such a hard blow ? Boggles my mind. Unless you've received some nice mail in the past week or so, from IOBit HQ

what a silly comment..all i ca say to this..

 

===========

 

A final note : I won't be back to post, unless I'm tortured into it ;-)

no don't overture ya self..

I am shaking my head at the moment...well sir do not shake to hard ,ya ma hurt ya self..Which leaves some questions to be answered about your true status within the organization. But that's just my opinion ;-)not a good one

that's my opinion.

iffa ya know any thing about forums,?

no one gets paid..and iffa thy do, i would want ta know where is my cut?

 

 

this comment--So... why are you folks still all here, helping on the forums after suffering such a hard blow ? Boggles my mind. Unless you've received some nice mail in the past week or so, from IOBit HQ

 

haaaa ya are joking..surely..by the way do not take offense with my spelling..

i have read the posts up to the last one..

 

let Me tell you something.i wonder ifa some one sent ME a nice Email? or any one here ,not nice a statement....

that is a bit rude,as for why are we here ,look at the post made daylong.we do ,why?, i, we enjoy the company.ta asked and answer,..my self i love ta share..now this is all getting very boring,

its past by, and we all know what the clams made are ,been told that plenty,now ,we been very understanding with all the posts

thy may have some good,bad,silly clams.we all tried ta listen.without out cameling, away .you have made ,what you see valid points.ok

good ,i suggest ifa it ends in a court ya be there,on behalf of mbam..

we however not speaking for the members but rather myself ,give a dam ,i really care less .nor lose sleep over it...

 

you see as one poster put it .1 finger is pointing,3 are pointing back at the same time..look leave it to the ones that have wigs on .let them sort it out

now posting all this ,you think it will turn members of the forum?

 

 

single out this one or that one..i read the to and fro answers ,you think you or any one will turn me of the application? as hard as you or any one may try?

 

think again...given if its true...i don't care.so long as it will do what i want from it

 

now let me also say this.there are 5 applacaitions ,that use the same en

gen..in fire walls ,and ip stoppers.(almost the same) i have not heard i whimper.from any of the programmers.nor the company's,...that there en gen are similar..

 

so i should go to each forum and point? or sagest ,? like i state i care less

ok as for myself you are welcome here ,why .i care less what is posted so long as its nice,i have been gulty of camaling.and losing the temper.and do .

but that is mostly ,not understanding words,the way thy are put.or sound.

you seem a smart person,ver good lines the way you spell.write i injoyed the posts.

but please no pointing tha fingers not at us any how,ya got a beef .THEN EMAIL the company ,

we only use the PARK and play in it.thats it

nothing else. i sat watching to attacks ,that we tried to stop .and be leave we behaved very well ..like i say ,this is the PARK .ya go to the factory and bitch there ...

 

itsmejjj

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Well said JJJ!

 

You speak eloquently despite spelling! I admire the effort you put forth here despite the cultural/language barriers that exist. Don't let the non-understanding idiots get under your skin... just another ego freak whacking off here on the forum. Not worthy of response... let it go.

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Iobit did it again.

 

Iobit claims to be a partner with DVDFast. In reality, I think DVDfast really is Iobit in disguise. If you compare Fast Video Converter PRO dvdfast.net with WinX DVD Ripper winxdvd.com, it is pretty clear they are the same program. Iobit did it again, misleading people with fake information. Its pretty obvious that Iobit, DVDFast, and Digiarty software are all the same company. Why does Iobit not want people to know?

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